Weiner Rushing
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Weiner Rushing
fine, you want rushes... I'll modify the way i play to suit.
Last edited by ocusa on 28 Sep 2005, 06:32, edited 1 time in total.
I dunno, I find the skirmish to be the most exhilirating part of the Spring Battle, and maybe mods ought to emphasize it more. What I hate is when games turn into LRPC seiges and gunship floods...
[edit]just to clarify, I don't mentally distinguish between rushing and skirmishing[/edit]
[edit]just to clarify, I don't mentally distinguish between rushing and skirmishing[/edit]
Last edited by FizWizz on 27 Sep 2005, 20:31, edited 1 time in total.
Two words: Dragons Teeth.
Cheap, light, effective defences. Your comm can build a wall in mere seconds and it will effectively keep light k-bots (and even heavier units) away from you for a while. Many first level units can't even fire over them, making them great for protecting LLTs, allowing them to litterally pwn the attackers.
Cheap, light, effective defences. Your comm can build a wall in mere seconds and it will effectively keep light k-bots (and even heavier units) away from you for a while. Many first level units can't even fire over them, making them great for protecting LLTs, allowing them to litterally pwn the attackers.
Three words: NOT ENOUGH TIME!
An enemy can pump out kbots and tanks much more quickly than you can set up an adequate defence in the beginning of the game.
LLTs need to shoot even the smallest units like 10 times before killing them. If you send 5x tanks or 10x peewees at the enemy the LLTs can't keep up.
Surrounding your base with DT will take too long your enemy will already have a small army by then.
Even having a HLT up quickly doesn't work very well as it can only hit one target at a time and takes a while to kill lvl1 tanks. A force of 5-10 stumpys can drive right past a HLT.
One of the biggest problems is the HP boost XTA gave the fast attack bots and the weasel scoutcars. THey are hard to hit anyway and now they can take many LLT hits before they are hurt.
I've had plenty of games where the first thing the enemy does is build rushers. While they may not kill your whole base, they do enough damage before they die that now you are way behind your opponent.
The problem is, if you are making tanks, you don't have the resources to make defenses. But if you only make defenses, you can't expand quickly because the enemy will raid your metal extractors that are beyond the reach of your turrets.
OTA gave CORE the Immolator specifically to defend against peewee and flash rushes. The commander could place them around his base and they did a good job. But XTA decided the Immolator is an expensive long range heavy cannon, even tho the commander can still build it. Why???
In the end, I've seen many games won simply because one of the players is a jerk and rush / harasses everyone else with no mercy. You simply can't put up a good defence quick enough to stop someone determined to early rush you to death, unless you are in a good location that has natural barriers.
And don't forget to use AA towers too, if the enemy sends a couple lvl1 gunships your way you have lost the game if you don't have AA.
In my opinion the commander should not be able to place immolators, and both commanders should be able to place aa towers.
An enemy can pump out kbots and tanks much more quickly than you can set up an adequate defence in the beginning of the game.
LLTs need to shoot even the smallest units like 10 times before killing them. If you send 5x tanks or 10x peewees at the enemy the LLTs can't keep up.
Surrounding your base with DT will take too long your enemy will already have a small army by then.
Even having a HLT up quickly doesn't work very well as it can only hit one target at a time and takes a while to kill lvl1 tanks. A force of 5-10 stumpys can drive right past a HLT.
One of the biggest problems is the HP boost XTA gave the fast attack bots and the weasel scoutcars. THey are hard to hit anyway and now they can take many LLT hits before they are hurt.
I've had plenty of games where the first thing the enemy does is build rushers. While they may not kill your whole base, they do enough damage before they die that now you are way behind your opponent.
The problem is, if you are making tanks, you don't have the resources to make defenses. But if you only make defenses, you can't expand quickly because the enemy will raid your metal extractors that are beyond the reach of your turrets.
OTA gave CORE the Immolator specifically to defend against peewee and flash rushes. The commander could place them around his base and they did a good job. But XTA decided the Immolator is an expensive long range heavy cannon, even tho the commander can still build it. Why???
In the end, I've seen many games won simply because one of the players is a jerk and rush / harasses everyone else with no mercy. You simply can't put up a good defence quick enough to stop someone determined to early rush you to death, unless you are in a good location that has natural barriers.
And don't forget to use AA towers too, if the enemy sends a couple lvl1 gunships your way you have lost the game if you don't have AA.
In my opinion the commander should not be able to place immolators, and both commanders should be able to place aa towers.
and have you noticing that a army can be used for defense? if you both use the same build order then the lag it takes him to get into your base you can either 1. have a group of 2-3 weasels to hunt their lone ones done 2. (better coz it guards against lvl1 GShips AND rushing units) is to get 3-5 samsons or some defenders.
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[K.B.] Napalm Cobra
- Posts: 1222
- Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 06:15
20 words. (10 is not a word)
Stop using the X numbear of words plese, it's stupid. Just that 10 cents remark, that everyone copied from one guy.
Now let's recap.
What do everyone have when starting the game?
The commander. It's big, has trice the amount of hp then ANY level 1 unit, a super duper gun, a kinda weak but effective laser, is ambious and can climb very good.
THIS is what makes Rushes in Spring not ''noob''. Have you ever played starcraft? what is the most used tatic? What do pepole do 90% of the time? RUSH! And every time they do 50 % of all players die, speacly in team games. BUT in spring, you get the super commander, so any early attack is stopped thanks to the d-gun.
Plus, unit's don't take time to build in TA. with my com beside a factory, i can pump out 2 ak's as soon as i see my enemy on radar.
So yes, you are every bit responebole if you get killed in a rush.
(the only exception is gunships, but that's why i always build a samson as soon as posibole.)
Oh, one more thing?
WTF IS A WEINER?
If i reambear correctly, it's some kind of sausge?
So your oppneth rush with sausges k-bots and you think it's unfair that you can't have the choice to build up an air army before he attacks you? Oh, yea, you could with your own suasge k-bot, but you did'nt want to?
*Sniker*
Please, if you don't know what is rushing you, how can you really comment?
If you don't find a good defence being the most powerfull gun in the whole game, i don't just know what you want...
Oh, and about the jerk thing. You can add that to anything. ''Ono, fucking jerk, you killed me with a balanced army! Thats cheating!''
why not ban it? Spring has ban unit fueture you know.
Could't find any ''Weiner's'' in the list?
FFS, Rushing is what makes spring GREAT! I LOVE IT! Rushing aculy impoys tatics, and you have to think to stop and execute a good rush. Not like giant slugfeasts like in ceartin games, where you spend 30 mins of building an army, 10 minutes of fighting back and forth and 20 minutes whipng the last strucure beacuase your oppenth refuses to suecide since you ''cheated''.
And no, you don't have to rush. It's esayer to make ground units, and just defend with em, but if you get your stupid air cons and defend them with... guess what? GROUND UNITS, you can win a game fast.
Stop using the X numbear of words plese, it's stupid. Just that 10 cents remark, that everyone copied from one guy.
Now let's recap.
What do everyone have when starting the game?
The commander. It's big, has trice the amount of hp then ANY level 1 unit, a super duper gun, a kinda weak but effective laser, is ambious and can climb very good.
THIS is what makes Rushes in Spring not ''noob''. Have you ever played starcraft? what is the most used tatic? What do pepole do 90% of the time? RUSH! And every time they do 50 % of all players die, speacly in team games. BUT in spring, you get the super commander, so any early attack is stopped thanks to the d-gun.
Plus, unit's don't take time to build in TA. with my com beside a factory, i can pump out 2 ak's as soon as i see my enemy on radar.
So yes, you are every bit responebole if you get killed in a rush.
(the only exception is gunships, but that's why i always build a samson as soon as posibole.)
Oh, one more thing?
WTF IS A WEINER?
If i reambear correctly, it's some kind of sausge?
So your oppneth rush with sausges k-bots and you think it's unfair that you can't have the choice to build up an air army before he attacks you? Oh, yea, you could with your own suasge k-bot, but you did'nt want to?
*Sniker*
Please, if you don't know what is rushing you, how can you really comment?
n the end, I've seen many games won simply because one of the players is a jerk and rush / harasses everyone else with no mercy. You simply can't put up a good defence quick enough to stop someone determined to early rush you to death, unless you are in a good location that has natural barriers.
If you don't find a good defence being the most powerfull gun in the whole game, i don't just know what you want...
Oh, and about the jerk thing. You can add that to anything. ''Ono, fucking jerk, you killed me with a balanced army! Thats cheating!''
I don't know why you do that, if you really don't like the ''weiner'' ( i still don't have a clue what unit your talking about)Amongst the group that I play with, we have a spoken rule that in order to have a decent game, to not attack instantly with little "weiners" kbots.
why not ban it? Spring has ban unit fueture you know.
Could't find any ''Weiner's'' in the list?
Oh yea? you get the same time as he got. Under that time, you could done something else then spamming out LLT... building a defence army, DT a choke ect....Three words: NOT ENOUGH TIME!
FFS, Rushing is what makes spring GREAT! I LOVE IT! Rushing aculy impoys tatics, and you have to think to stop and execute a good rush. Not like giant slugfeasts like in ceartin games, where you spend 30 mins of building an army, 10 minutes of fighting back and forth and 20 minutes whipng the last strucure beacuase your oppenth refuses to suecide since you ''cheated''.
And no, you don't have to rush. It's esayer to make ground units, and just defend with em, but if you get your stupid air cons and defend them with... guess what? GROUND UNITS, you can win a game fast.
At first I was getting fustrated with rushers... But now i just build some defenses and they cant kill me.. ive had it sometimes where i build 2 mexes 2 solars 4 LLTs a kbot lab and send 5 peewees and rush the guy who was trying to rush me, I normally end up killing most of his mexes because he didnt build enough defense
A good rusher will always move behind your commander and your buildings. Most of the time you are too slow to dgun the enemy or you have to kill your own building to stop them.If you don't find a good defence being the most powerfull gun in the whole game, i don't just know what you want...
The D-gun is only a good anti-rush tool in limited cases.
Re: Weiner Rushing
And i, for my part, although i usually dont rush at all (i like building big armies first), will never play a game with you in it, basd on your behaviour. Sore loser isnt even getting it... If the same player could first cripple you, and then after that your teammate, in a single "something" (wtf is weiner?) rush, than you both just suck too much. Earnestly.ocusa wrote: Then while he went on to wein my ally, I lost my temper, abused him and then I proceeded to max out my processor, and my internet connection to try to disrupt the game as much as possible. I don't know if it had much affect on the rest of his game, but if it did, hell yeah!. A bad sportsman deserves no respect and therefore I sank to his level and became a bad sport myself. Out of the 20 or so games of spring I have had i've experienced this maybe twice, and in the future I will refuse to play maps or people that play with that style.
You should play together with tanelorn. You two seem to have similar mindsets ("if i dont win nobody else should have fun")
Whether or not you like it, rushing is a part of XTA, and is a valid tactic.
Is it an acceptable one? In my mind, yes.
Level 1 units are great skirmishers, and it forces players to interact in the game, instead of play a game of virtual solitaire against each other that inevitably ends up with massed LRPCs on each side, and the very unsatsifactory end of 15 krogoths, 3 nuke plants, and 10 buzzsaws. Or alternately, 300 brawlers.
Honestly, by the time they have sent their 3 minute rocket kbot squad out, you should at least have an HLT up in your base, and a kbot plant of your own. It's your own fault you died.
Of course, if you're angry enough about it, you could always mess around with the unit files to halve the cost of all the defensive units in the game and release it as "Pork Mod 1.0".
Is it an acceptable one? In my mind, yes.
Level 1 units are great skirmishers, and it forces players to interact in the game, instead of play a game of virtual solitaire against each other that inevitably ends up with massed LRPCs on each side, and the very unsatsifactory end of 15 krogoths, 3 nuke plants, and 10 buzzsaws. Or alternately, 300 brawlers.
Honestly, by the time they have sent their 3 minute rocket kbot squad out, you should at least have an HLT up in your base, and a kbot plant of your own. It's your own fault you died.
Of course, if you're angry enough about it, you could always mess around with the unit files to halve the cost of all the defensive units in the game and release it as "Pork Mod 1.0".
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GrOuNd_ZeRo
- Posts: 1370
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 01:10
Guys, stop with the newbie bashing already!
I know for a beginning player it's very frustrating when players suprise you with raids with surface to air units like Samsons, Jethro's, I know effectively used Storms and Rocko's can wreak havoc on any unit, extremely frustrating, but the key word here is defense, HLTs are your friends, and LLT's are theirs, infantry Kbots are your friends, light tanks are your friends, build them! get a pop up cannon ASAP.
I Know that XTA is alot to get used to, I found out the hard way that HLTs have much more range, my commander got in the direct line of fire of one, and before I could retreat, it was too late.
I know it's frustrating, but watch some replays, (I recommend the latest one uploaded at Fileuniverse.com) and see how they defend.
And play, play, and play again, learn to defend your self, also try random enemies scripts to learn to defend against rushes.
Good luck!
I know for a beginning player it's very frustrating when players suprise you with raids with surface to air units like Samsons, Jethro's, I know effectively used Storms and Rocko's can wreak havoc on any unit, extremely frustrating, but the key word here is defense, HLTs are your friends, and LLT's are theirs, infantry Kbots are your friends, light tanks are your friends, build them! get a pop up cannon ASAP.
I Know that XTA is alot to get used to, I found out the hard way that HLTs have much more range, my commander got in the direct line of fire of one, and before I could retreat, it was too late.
I know it's frustrating, but watch some replays, (I recommend the latest one uploaded at Fileuniverse.com) and see how they defend.
And play, play, and play again, learn to defend your self, also try random enemies scripts to learn to defend against rushes.
Good luck!
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PauloMorfeo
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: 15 Dec 2004, 20:53
I think it was on my game. I just wonder how he still has the nerve to come here and tell everyone what he's done.
- The map was Castles. (me + PT_bate_chapas v him and one other)
- I decided not to rush out of fear of complaints. (still he complaints... I guess to some people, any kind of attack is rushing)
- I was starting to advance to lvl-2, i decided to get rid of some units and see what he was up to.
- The uber destroying strike force that killed his comm and his whole base was 3 Instigators + 3 Slashers.
The rest of the story, you already know.
- The map was Castles. (me + PT_bate_chapas v him and one other)
- I decided not to rush out of fear of complaints. (still he complaints... I guess to some people, any kind of attack is rushing)
- I was starting to advance to lvl-2, i decided to get rid of some units and see what he was up to.
- The uber destroying strike force that killed his comm and his whole base was 3 Instigators + 3 Slashers.
The rest of the story, you already know.
Well its easy to blast a base and a comm if the situation is right. Slashers can keep up with a commander and keep shooting at him while outrunning his advance. Instigators can rush behind buildings and shoot at them while being hidden from turrets and moving to stay away from a commander. If you kill all his energy then he can't keep his turrets firing.
His main problem was not dragonteething his base. In castles its easier than in open maps.
His main problem was not dragonteething his base. In castles its easier than in open maps.
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Warlord Zsinj
- Imperial Winter Developer
- Posts: 3742
- Joined: 24 Aug 2004, 08:59
I have to agree with everyone here.
In TA, the byword was always "anything goes". Both players start out with the same tools infront of them. If a player defeats you by using strategy x, you have to learn how to use strategy x better than that player, or learn a strategy that defeats that one. I hope this has transferred to Spring.
Many people used to complain about rushing, because they couldn't deal with it - as if it was a flaw in the game. It is rather a flaw in the player.
In TA, the byword was always "anything goes". Both players start out with the same tools infront of them. If a player defeats you by using strategy x, you have to learn how to use strategy x better than that player, or learn a strategy that defeats that one. I hope this has transferred to Spring.
Many people used to complain about rushing, because they couldn't deal with it - as if it was a flaw in the game. It is rather a flaw in the player.
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PT_bate_chapas
- Posts: 5
- Joined: 28 Sep 2005, 02:54
LOLOLOL
Man, rules are very simple!! There are 2 or more teams playing, all the teams start with only one unit, commander...
Objective: to kill all enemy units...
It couldn t be more simple Wink
VIVA PORTUGAL!!!!!!!!!!!! Razz
PT_bate_chapas
Objective: to kill all enemy units...
It couldn t be more simple Wink
VIVA PORTUGAL!!!!!!!!!!!! Razz
PT_bate_chapas