Wikipedia - Page 3

Wikipedia

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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SirMaverick
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by SirMaverick » 03 Feb 2010, 18:38

SinbadEV wrote:does anyone know how notable/reliable this source is?

http://www.chip.de/downloads/Spring-RTS_21642345.html
chip.de itself is ok. But the article is short and in the download section. Added 01.02.2010, probably user submitted.
OOOh!!!

I had an idea... we should start sending press-releases to various news outlets/web sites (ign etc) whenever a new release is tested as widely stable (so, like 7 days after a public release that doesn't have breaking bugs)... eventually this is going to happen in a slow enough enough news-week that some reliable-ish source will provide coverage and BAM we're notable.
You have to make sure they write their own story, else it might count as original research.
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Pxtl
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by Pxtl » 03 Feb 2010, 18:46

http://rocr.xepher.net/weblog/archives/001935.html

How to get a page deleted from Wikipedia.
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SinbadEV
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by SinbadEV » 03 Feb 2010, 18:52

Pxtl wrote:http://rocr.xepher.net/weblog/archives/001935.html

How to get a page deleted from Wikipedia.
Irony!
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knorke
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by knorke » 03 Feb 2010, 19:14

"chip" is a pretty big/known computer magazine in germany. Maybe the most well known beside "c't" or "Computer Bild."

But this article is no good source, because lots of tools/games are featured on chip.de and this text is just the typical shallow bla bla with some random images taken from the spring website.
They didnt even take screenshots themself, so yea...
On their CD there are usually "99 tools that make your windows faster!!" and "123 internet tips that really help and make your icq flower blue!" or something, so even if spring was included there it wouldnt have much impact.

Thats also why "start sending press-releases to various news outlets/web sites" wouldnt help much, I have never seen a free game get good coverage that way. Stuff just get lost in huge lists.



Good reasons for importance of spring would imo be:
-player stats: http://planetspads.free.fr/spring/stats ... _leaf.html
Around 200 players in the lobby is quite alot for an opensource game in such a niche genre as RTS, without any real advertising.
-download numbers (of installer and traffic caused by maps etc)

-in articles such as "games for linux" or "rts for linux" spring is mentioned quite alot.

-it started as a remake of TA, a game with some notability.

-Some features that are pretty unique:
Custom AIs.
Terrain can be manipulated.
Users can customize their interface with Widgets/LUA scripts. Interface in general is pretty powerfull, editable selection hotkeys, waypoints, draw on map etc.

Does one need an account to write in the delete discussion? Ive edited stuff before without account but here I can't get it to work.
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Pxtl
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by Pxtl » 03 Feb 2010, 19:21

@knorke - none of that stuff makes it notable. Their only requirement for notability is a substantial mention in a notable source. Numbers aren't notable.

So basically, notability means "you have a marketing team". Dora The Explorer DS is more notable than Spring, because it has a score on Metacritic.
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Neddie
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by Neddie » 03 Feb 2010, 19:26

If people are going to refer to this thread as a source of meatpuppetry, they are free to make themselves look like fools. I will not delete or hide it, that will merely lend some shred of the spurious appearance of credibility to their claims. Discounting a variety of users because they agree with one another and come from a shared place, regardless of the content of their arguments, is lunacy. Just as attacking this particular article, as opposed to the thousands of insufficient commercial game articles is lunacy.

My replacement article is not written, thus it cannot be changed yet.
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Saktoth
Zero-K Developer
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by Saktoth » 03 Feb 2010, 19:34

Pxtl wrote:@knorke - none of that stuff makes it notable. Their only requirement for notability is a substantial mention in a notable source. Numbers aren't notable.

So basically, notability means "you have a marketing team". Dora The Explorer DS is more notable than Spring, because it has a score on Metacritic.
Really savvy point here. Spring isnt notable because it has no marketing budget.
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AF
AI Developer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Re: Wikipedia

Post by AF » 03 Feb 2010, 19:55

Sander Bakkes wrote a paper currently published in AI Wisdom 4 that involved numerous spring AIs, KAI AAI and RAI IIRC are mentioned in it.

There is also the paper published by firenu and tournesol on their work with Krogothe and KAI.

I shall prod them about it if I can..

edit: Im not even sure what the current license is on the logos, I dont even have a wikipedia account.
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knorke
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by knorke » 03 Feb 2010, 20:00

Numbers aren't notable.
really? Thats gay.
I mean: wtf, look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bomberman_games
Are those more relevant/important than spring?
Also every old 0815 shoot'em up or jump'n' run game has its article and many only have MobyGames as reference.
If people are going to refer to this thread as a source of meatpuppetry, they are free to make themselves look like fools.
True, but wikipedia decissions are not majority votes anyway, at least in theory.
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by zwzsg » 03 Feb 2010, 20:00

Spring may not be notable enough for Wikipedia.... But Kernel Panic on the other hand is notable because it's cited in a research paper about Serious Game:

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/ijcgt/2009/470590.html
https://pedagogie.ec-nantes.fr/afrv/upl ... v08/11.pdf
http://serious.gameclassification.com/F ... n-gps.html
http://www.irit.fr/~Mathieu.Muratet/progAndPlay.php

I propose the Spring article to be deleted, and a Kernel_Panic_(game) entry be instituted.

amirite?
Last edited by zwzsg on 03 Feb 2010, 20:04, edited 2 times in total.
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Neddie
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by Neddie » 03 Feb 2010, 20:04

I'm planning to make a KP article, actually.
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zwzsg
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by zwzsg » 03 Feb 2010, 20:05

Look, it even got numbered figures, it's a true scientific publication!!



Image

Serious
Last edited by zwzsg on 03 Feb 2010, 20:14, edited 1 time in total.
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knorke
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by knorke » 03 Feb 2010, 20:07

ÔÇ£AmericaÔÇÖs ArmyÔÇØ is a game launched in
July 2002 designed by the Modelling, Virtual Environments, and Simulation
(MOVES) Institute at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, Calif, USA. It was initially built as a recruiting
tool for the United States of AmericaÔÇÖs army. However it became the
first really successful serious game
I think other games have been serious business before.
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zwzsg
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by zwzsg » 03 Feb 2010, 20:11

Yes, but can you find research papers documenting the seriousness of it? [citation needed] You got seven days before I terminate your AA entry.
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el_matarife
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by el_matarife » 03 Feb 2010, 20:56

I think it would be pretty easy to beat this just by having a few people showing up and saying "Are you serious, this game has 200+ players every night?"

I also don't think any people who post here or develop anything for Spring are neutral enough under their rules to edit Spring's page, but I don't think Wikipedia obeys their own rules enough to care. As long as the Spring wiki page isn't to relentlessly cheer-leading we should be fine.

Wikipedia is really going downhill fast recently, Wikipedia's volunteers have stopped showing up and I am personally preparing to start using Citizendium for everything. (Which Spring would probably not qualify for an article on, I guess)
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smoth
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by smoth » 03 Feb 2010, 21:12

who gives a shit. Effectively wikipedia has spent the past 4-5 years deleting anything that made it good. The site is dying because of this. in 10 years there will be a new alternative.
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Pxtl
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by Pxtl » 03 Feb 2010, 21:36

smoth wrote:who gives a shit. Effectively wikipedia has spent the past 4-5 years deleting anything that made it good. The site is dying because of this. in 10 years there will be a new alternative.
This. Deletionism has scared off contributors. It's original founders have moved on to better things - Jimbo is making a mint off of everybody who's getting kicked off of Wikipedia with Wikia, and Sanger is trying to make something that would actually satisfy the pedantic deletionist's goals in Citizendium.... and probably still wouldn't be allowed as a reference in a highschool paper.
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luckywaldo7
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by luckywaldo7 » 03 Feb 2010, 22:06

Haha meatpuppetry. And after several corrections some of them are still referring to Spring as a game, and not as an engine. I almost thought that they might have had a legitimate case until I saw some of the comments. Anyway smoth is right, wikipedia is fail, not really worth it to try to keep an article on there.

Something else interesting, from a quick glance at this list I would say that almost all of the free/open source engine articles are "not notable". In fact, probably very few open source projects would pass their "standards", which is bitterly ironic considering that open source was the spirit that birthed wikipedia. Oh well, thats what they get for letting people who get off on having control run amok on their website.
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bobthedinosaur
Blood & Steel Developer
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by bobthedinosaur » 03 Feb 2010, 22:55

I'm in college. I can write a serious paper on the spring engine for my serious class, and maybe get some one to give the thumbs up for a serious research project on spring's seriousness.
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JohannesH
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Re: Wikipedia

Post by JohannesH » 03 Feb 2010, 23:15

bobthedinosaur wrote:I'm in college. I can write a serious paper on the spring engine for my serious class, and maybe get some one to give the thumbs up for a serious research project on spring's seriousness.
Aare you serious
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