Issue : game exploiters last night

Issue : game exploiters last night

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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KaiserJ
Community Representative
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Joined: 08 Sep 2008, 22:59

Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by KaiserJ » 05 Oct 2009, 22:24

i'm getting pretty sick of this shit, let me tell you.

the situation : last night, 8v8 dsd BA.

game starts, we play for about 20 minutes. PYB clan is split between both teams, as cbalance was disabled. it was like pulling teeth getting them to ready up. anyways. *SOMETHING* (not going to name any names, because i dont know) happens... somebody spoofs an un-ally message to the autohost, the west team starts attacking itself. game ruined.

now lets backtrack here. there were 2 smurfs with a PYB tag in the game. one was apparently "official" (what a joke) and the other was someone who was clearly very angry about clan stacking and something that had happened the previous game. the ingame messages seemed to indicate that it was the "official" smurf who was responsible for the exploit.

lets backtrack again here. WHY was this mystery person so angry? because although everyone on the autohost except for the clan seemed to agree that !cbalance should be disabled for the game, this was completely unacceptable to the clan members, who refused to ready up until they had almost been kicked from the battleroom due to voting.

and of course, after the game, PYB members were kickbanned (not sure i agree with this as a course of action, but i can sympathize with the others ingame who were just sick of the griefing)... then of course said players promptly re-appeared using renames and smurf accounts.

i'm completely sick of stacked games myself. currently i'm clanned as [Mr]E_Rection, im not trying to hide my identity; i like playing with clanmates when its appropriate. i can understand why PYB wants to play together also, as they are all friends.

a certain amount of responsibility needs to be taken here. when you enter a game, with 5 clanmates, and EVERYONE else doesn't want you to play together, i feel it's really a majority decision; if you don't like the rules of the autohost, and if everyone else is fine with them, then just leave the game. don't waste 15 peoples time on your own selfish desires. (mar3usmc)

"as long as the ranks balance, the game is balanced" this is a crock of crap, as anyone worth their mustard as a player could agree. im all for playing with my friends and having a good game, but i also recognize the fact that there ARE others in the game than me, and if they don't want me to play with my clan due to balance reasons, then im fine with it. (mar3usmc)

THIS is the reason why my timezone is so garbage for BA games... PYB clan stacks the hell out of battlerooms... people don't like it, and retaliate with griefing and engine exploits. the blame is split, between people who take the matter of "retaliation" into their own hands, and between the people causing the imbalance in the first place.

i don't even know what can be done about this; i was hoping that from neddies moderator picks we'd get at least one BA player from said timezone, but it didn't happen.

PYB seems completely oblivious to the fact that NOBODY likes playing against them as a clan. i've said before, i like some of them as friends, but i can concur with the masses... playing against a stack, every night, is not enjoyable.

clan members need to take some responsibility for their actions and the way that they conduct themselves on the lobby, and maybe we'll have fewer griefers. certainly it's easier to stop a clanstack than a hacker (who, i would guess, judging by their actions, is only really interested in playing a balanced game, rather than targeting specific individuals for griefing purposes)

i'm sick of playing a metagame of clanstack vs hacker... i'd actually like to play a game of BA for once.

if there were even TWO games going on, where people could pick whether they wanted a cbalance or a balance, that would be fine. however there are generally less than 16 people ready to play anyways (and yes, 16 player games are fairly fail, but if its all i can get, im taking it)

clans are a good idea; it makes for competitive games. however, having ONE clan, who constantly beats on noobs, is pathetic; it makes noob retention in BA (and spring in general) almost impossible.

i can upload the replay if that will make any difference.

again; we need a moderator who plays BA for this timezone. since im not really fit for the job myself as a project dev, im going to nominate gedanken and mage246.

123v, as clan leader, its time for you to take some responsibility for the way your clan conducts itself in games. there is a reason they are targets for griefers.
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Neddie
Community Lead
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Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by Neddie » 05 Oct 2009, 22:27

We already have multiple BA playing moderators in your time zone. I'm sorry I was not online, I've been taking a break for the past three days, but normally you can bring that sort of thing to me.
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KaiserJ
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Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by KaiserJ » 05 Oct 2009, 22:40

wasn't meant to be an attack at you at all neddie; you've done a great job to update the moderator roster.

im just really frustrated; there is no one person at fault, it's all caused by a clanstack vs grief situation that has been slowly boiling over for the last 6 months. i have a hell of a lot of patience, but i can see how most people would eventually get to the point of "this is completely unfair, so i a) quit or b) grief."

from my perspective, i try and do as much as i can for spring, one of the coolest projects ive ever been involved it. just ticks me right off to see stackers / griefers going right ahead and sitting on my nuts like leeches.
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CarRepairer
Cursed Zero-K Developer
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Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by CarRepairer » 05 Oct 2009, 22:53

KaiserJ wrote:*SOMETHING* (not going to name any names, because i dont know) happens... somebody spoofs an un-ally message to the autohost, the west team starts attacking itself. game ruined.
This is a bug I found a while ago and made some people aware of it. It can only be caused by a spec. It might not even be deliberate if a spec has some sort of gui that calls the /ally command (BrainDamage had very recently created such a gui).

However I was told this bug was fixed.
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Beherith
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Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by Beherith » 05 Oct 2009, 22:58

KaiserJ wrote:123v, as clan leader, its time for you to take some responsibility for the way your clan conducts itself in games. there is a reason they are targets for griefers.
I cant stress this one enough. Ive had many talks with 123v about this, but still, hes reluctant to report his own members (understandable), then he complains that hes powerless to keep griefers out.
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smoth
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Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by smoth » 05 Oct 2009, 23:08

[Mr]E_Rection
mystery erection, I didn't get past that part, just started laughing...
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Auswaschbar
Spring Developer
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Joined: 24 Jun 2007, 08:34

Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by Auswaschbar » 05 Oct 2009, 23:47

Demo or it didn't happen.
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CarRepairer
Cursed Zero-K Developer
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Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by CarRepairer » 06 Oct 2009, 00:18

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oreoz____
Posts: 5
Joined: 10 Sep 2009, 20:42

Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by oreoz____ » 06 Oct 2009, 00:47

I was spectating in this game(Under SalamcanMango).

Replay(mediafire,adune)

Most notable point is around ~24:05 when weird stuff starts happening[on west]...


EDIT: another similar replay I have of this, http://www.mediafire.com/?motyymjazyi (once again, spectating under SalamancanMango)
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SirMaverick
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Joined: 19 May 2009, 21:10

Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by SirMaverick » 06 Oct 2009, 01:30

2 issues on west side:
- [PYB]OhMyStack placed mines next to fusions and metal makers of allies and selfds them (just team killing, not exploit)
- [BLC]Noobcluster gets unallied from his own ally - thats why his untis trying to firing on themselves (it needs 1 modified client to this - everyone in the game could have done that, even a spec)
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Caydr
Omnidouche
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Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by Caydr » 06 Oct 2009, 05:23

KaiserJ wrote:i'm getting pretty sick of this shit, let me tell you.

the situation : last night, 8v8 dsd BA.
I'll second that.
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Dragon45
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Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 04:36

Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by Dragon45 » 06 Oct 2009, 07:24

I was thar 4 teh haxxorez


haxxxxxxxxxxxxx

and yeah, pyb needs to split into [pyb][a] and [pyb] for DSD games because its not fun playing them night after night all the time together soooooo annoooyyyinnggg esp since no other smurg are on

smuga gaots
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TheFatController
Balanced Annihilation Developer
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Joined: 10 Dec 2006, 18:46

Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by TheFatController » 06 Oct 2009, 10:44

Semi related - I've already fixed the newest 'load moving units' exploit i've seen REVENGE using, and should be patching BA with an update this week.

If you see anyone using it in the meantime my reccomendation would be a hefty ban since the exploit also involves spamming thousands of commands with a widget which probably doesn't do a game much good.
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JohannesH
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Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by JohannesH » 06 Oct 2009, 12:02

More people should learn proper playing, pyb is not that hard to beat really

Crappy teammates who dont listen are much more annoying than having half decent enemies.

But yeah all that haxing is lame.
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pintle
Posts: 1762
Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 16:01

Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by pintle » 06 Oct 2009, 13:54

PYB: Troll Clan.


Afford them 0 respect till they man up and put the DSD faggotry behind them.
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momfreeek
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Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by momfreeek » 06 Oct 2009, 16:51

JohannesH wrote:More people should learn proper playing, pyb is not that hard to beat really

Crappy teammates who dont listen are much more annoying than having half decent enemies.
You can't blame nubs for being nubs and anyway its pot luck. Intentional clanstacking is a different kettle of fish.

SPADS !balance uses clan balance by default, this is half the problem IMO. Also the voting is screwed (away mode votes) with 1 person able to make a change. It should be up to the person trying to make the change to raise support not pass by default unless others raise support against it.
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Rafal99
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Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by Rafal99 » 07 Oct 2009, 11:31

I hate clans which refuse to split into opposite teams too.
I remember a game where [MARS] clan behaved like this. They all refused to ready up because we didn't want all of them at the same team. We tried several !votekicks but to no effect since they were !voting 2 each other. Finally we did !cbalance and everyone readied up.
But someone did !balance just before start, so they ended in different teams.

Game loaded, we all set up start positions, readied up, but a few seconds after game started BOOM! then another one!
Two of them just walked to the closest allied commander and dgunned. We tried !votekicks again but to no effect. We exited the game and I think they all left the host and we were able to make a successful game finally.


Edit:
I also remember one game where our allied units suddenly started shooting each other. I may have the replay somewhere if it helps to find the hacker.
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BaNa
Posts: 1561
Joined: 09 Sep 2007, 21:05

Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by BaNa » 07 Oct 2009, 12:15

The thing is, playing with your clan is very very fun. If I play with my clan on dsd or some other map and the other team doesnt have proper clan players in it, we tend to do funny shit like pw spam. This makes the game more fun for us and affords a better fighting chance for the other team. Or we take them on 3v6. Imo its better to change the game that way rather than votekicking or forcing non-cbalance.


and rebalancing in the last moment is a pretty low move, if those guys are on mumble they probably wouldnt play in opposing teams anyway.

I'm surprised by this sort of sentiment, one should try to play better and man up rather than whine about clans. Especially since it is rank-balanced and if you have played a couple of hundred hours (presumably most of it on dsd) you should be able to fucking spam tanks and make a descent try against most clans nowdays.
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Rafal99
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Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by Rafal99 » 07 Oct 2009, 14:43

The problem with cbalance is that it sometimes makes very unbalanced games. Clan members are usually experienced players while others usually contain some newbies. So if you have 10 players, 5 of which are at the same clan and you do !cbalance, you get a team of 5 experienced players who know each other and can communicate and cooperate effectively vs team of mixed newbies and pros. This usually results in 5-10 minutes game which is fun but only to one side. Whats is worse is if some of them spectate and all of them are in one team and can communicate, then they may easily cheat, but I hope it rarely happens.
Manual balancing or uneven teams is not a solution as it is quite hard to perform on autohosts, and any !balance will change it back to the begining.

Another problem is that they try to force their rules on others, for example refusing to ready up.
Let alone situations like dgunning allies ingame instead of just calling !voteexit, as it is pure trolling with no excuse, and it is not so much related to clanstacks problem, just happened in the concrete situation I mentioned in previous post.

So they try to apply their rules to others by one method or another and there is nothing you can do except finding another game (but sometimes theres is only one active at the time), any !votes will insta fail as they have advantage of numbers, and will never vote against friends, which is of course understandable but not fair to others.
Seriously if they want their rules, they should just make their own host and do whatever they want there.

Tbh I have never had any problems with clanmembers when playing in their own autohosts, they usually respect other players, and keep good atmosphere. Problems happens when there is no admins on the autohost and a group of people come and decide they will now rule that place.

To conlude I have nothing against clans or clanmembers, most of them are nice people, just wanted to point out some individual situations.
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pintle
Posts: 1762
Joined: 19 Dec 2005, 16:01

Re: Issue : game exploiters last night

Post by pintle » 07 Oct 2009, 15:06

The thing is, it is damn hard to ever organize a clan match. The vast majority of spring clans exist for the sole purpose of clan stacking.
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