Need a *A Spring video showing great micro/macro

[[LBF]Vache]

Having to do so many mouse /Key strokes to do things you can do as efficiently in spring with simple combinations doesn't make the game more complex, just the gameplay.

I'm no starcraft pro though, i'm just merely pointing a problem in this argument.

[Lolsquad_Steven]

Having to do so many mouse /Key strokes to do things you can do as efficiently in spring with simple combinations doesn't make the game more complex, just the gameplay.

I'm no starcraft pro though, i'm just merely pointing a problem in this argument.

We weren't talking about the fucking game you fucking idiot.

[zwzsg]

In ta all you do is draw a line, physics don't make the gameplay in ta more complex at all.

First, I need to point out that no, in TA you can't draw line. You must be confusing TA with those Spring mods ripping it off or something. Then, I'll also add that even in TA, the mad microer wins. I'm not in the mood for wasting two hours writing about all the micro involved in high level TA games, so here's a link to a SC vs TA flamewar of ye old time. I'll quote what PicarDOH (amongst the top two-three best TA players ever, so he knows his stuff) said on the matter:

Ugh im on the second page of the 1st sc vx ta topic this sucks so
much flour
and i decided to start a txt since this will take forever
to read and like hell id be able to rememeber all the posts
b4 i read further...

I want to comment on deth, and his learning curve statement people have the same learning curve
not to mention SC is a in general for the curve harder game since its about speed more than ta is
which does make SC game play a little less but not by much.not to mention there is mass strategy just as in ta..
and 50k players playing so of course the newbs are even newbier than ta newbs ..well mostly

id also like to mention the average ta game has less unit types used than a SC game especially
moveable units ..there is a fusion/solar/wind/tidal/sonar.;.. ect for e.. but thats just for e
you dont really need all that stuff.. hmph..

Not to mention good players in SC wont even play newer players RARELY.. cause its boring for them
cause obviously the curve isnt so easy that anyone will play anyone people want a good game..
and you can always get that there and they arent flours like in ta.. only the medium players are
..

ta and micro?
unlimited micro my ass, you call selecting all your units and just seinding them towards something?
micro? hahaha, they call it micro cause you kill 5 units with 4 units , not cause you kill 150 with 150 cuase
one guys flashes decided not to fire while your comp handled that and fired heh
you dont even have to watch the battle in ta, they added cheats tahook which is widley used.
you all suck at ta anyways,

Dragon lord you are an idiot, you dont know flour about ta, you say sc is fastest rts game?
hahah i dont waste a second in ta , its do this do that ive watched sc vods.. its just as fast
you dont get built in choke points either you have to create them on 80% of maps , i actually like SC
better but i have to note ta is a hell of a game, just to many newbs,, and the ghetto tourneys

amraam , i beleieve starcraft is more popular cause, it has more focused moments of the game , you
have to move your units to the exact range of fire they need to be , like chess , when someone attacks
its likely you know where something else is gonna be to go attack , there is no radar.. you actually
have to scout .. in my opinion radar is like permenent line of sight which sucks.. and for everything there is a counter
in ta on a basic land map, people 99% of time must go vehcels vs someone of = skill in sc
you can do drops,air,men,vehicls ,magic stuff .... and it can still be a great fast game..
not to mention comps dont interfear with gameplay and the creators didnt screw up and make
SCK like ta made TAK and wasted their advertisment ability.....

grumble , more stupid people dont play sc because they are stupid .. where did you get that from?
they advertised.. computers ran it .. people played it.. they said if you play and win
we will give you 10k$.. so more people played it.. ta didnt do that.. what do you expect?
but it has nothing to do with people being dumb. there is 5000 good sc players and 0 good ta players
wander why they are stupid hmph...


brackish you are an idiot, just as Most SC players that are decent come here and spam
that SC newbs hate it.. and that ta players dont need strategy or anything.. i beg to differ
the games are very much alike.. you just dont have magic and you have radar instead of after sight
but the fact that they are both war type games make them very simalar.. you can coutner attacks
with attacks.. if you dont wait 45 mintues to do things you can caluclate what they have with just sending a peeper.
at one spot if you are good enough and you will know where to attack and defend just like in SC
just like in chess just like in real war.... not to mention on some maps you must watch your stuff ALOT
more since a ta air unit smaller one.. a drop ship carrys but one unit, and can only take 1-2 shots and its dead
in sc if your ship gets shot at .. you have time to turn it around.. not to mention if its not on a perm course
it turns for you .... so its not all about sending crap in and HOPEING... moving on

grumble..
how can you say you played tons at sc.. and didnt enjoy any of it..
i dont see why you played then?

roflmao some of these posts are mad funny.. sit in the corner haha

ta= 4 sc games at the same time thats how i see it.. so yes the gameplay does decrease some
you have a point mr blow , but it would increase if there was better players oh well..

Prezkennedy: you are an idiot this is an SC/TA topic.. why do you even care to read if you think
the thread should be closed? i really hate when people try and close topics.. wtf is all your
probs?and if you cant have good sc players say something about SC why do you care what a TA player says?
lets go get a checkers player and ask them ok? sheesh

Neverborn :Ta is just as deep if not more , ta just has 2 sides that are nearly the same..
making it seem less deep but the strategic parts when truely mastered.. make it just as deep
as ive said alota times b4.. everyone just sucks at ta

Barbar: you where resonably decent at TA b4 you started Starcraft, which is why you where decent at Sc
after a short time.. your clicking and war thinking was just molded to the SC "unit roles"
but you suck at games anyways GG turbo newb

casper: i think he meant he was good for 2 days.. not good over all..

WOW if i post like this ill have replaied to 200 outa the 500 post flour this could take years..
and then that other thread being posted on will flourING BE HUGE OMG THIS SUCKS ASS!

let me restate that PREZ IS A DUMBASS thanks GG

oh joy page 4 :\

cool, restating again to prez: or your liable to sound stupid? some people may sound it
but we all know , tag! you're it

Ta's depth is from a war point of view. early in the game
you make a scout and you send it in , while the other player makes 3 hoping to kill something as well as
see whats up , your scout on the way sees his scouts coming you still go to his base and your unit dies
, knowing he has sent 3 you send units to your metals and kill the scouts as they come.. thinking he will
outsmart you he sends one backs and comes again hoping you leave your mex , you dont you kill it
you are then 100 metal ahead. givin you both make same build orders, how you will have one more flash
so somewhere soon your 2 flashes engage one of his.. and you have a 1/3 dead flash but still the power of 2
now the person lacking goes for 2 missle towers hoping that he will get attacked since hes behind
and as he suspected he gets attacked and runs his flashes a ways infront of the missles and they both lose
all thier flashes since one player had more and the other had backup, but the attacking player already has a few missle towers
going up just outside his mts, range, so the wrekage is safe.. a nother factor that SC doenst really have
this get sos in depth im to lazy to keep going.. but you see what i mean.. its just like saying oh flour
ill get upgraded dudes.. instead its ill stick 2 MTs here and try and force a battle infront of them.
and then just after that ill counter by attacking his expansion knowing the other guy will come to defend.. ill send 2 of
my flashes and 2 cons to take fire at his missle towers and a risky stumpy to take shots
now by this time the dude who was behind has the wreks and the other guys expansion is hurting some
you see? just cause you dont understand ta, it doesnt mean it has no depth. just cause 99% of ta players suck ass
doesnt mean its not deep when you are MAD CRAZY GOOD at war ...

ps: barbars reasons do suck you are all right.. game engine ,recourse design dont make depth
they make difference
pps: pudding ownz..

reading on

"StarCraft puts major emphasis on resource managment, micro-managment, macro-managment,
scouting, being decisive, alert, aware and knowing what to counter, when to counter it
and how to use the units to counter; as well as strategy."

casper: starcraft doesnt have as much recourse management you cant excess and you cant stall you can either
build it or cant.and in all rts games to be the best or even good you must be good at all the things
you just stated.. so as well as SC,TA all those other games warcraft cc,aoe... those all need that
and ta does get deep when you think about maneging recourses.
and dont counter this , saying that you have to know what to build with what you have, cause
in ta you have to as well, and you have to do it in a manner that doesnt stall you, in sc you
CANT stall...SC ownz.. but TA ownz too ... if as many people played ta as played sc, ta tourneys would
be worth more.. atleast i think so... the micro involved in ta when you get TURBO GOSU hahaha
i made a new word .... is surreal.. in sc.. it only involves.. up to 200 mobile units not to mention
1/3 of those are drones and well yah and some of those take up more than 1 unit slot.. so usually alot
ALOT less than the possibilitys in ta's micro, sure you dont have to rebuild in labs but, if there
was ta tourneys that meant something that silly 100 unit thing would be banned.. and then yes in situations
you have to redue your labs.. but i will say this much.. i NEVER stop clicking in ta.. once my 1st con unit
is done and in SC you start with some.. so nuff said
ps: have i made myself clear?

offspring: the easy way out tends to make people worse at something.. the fact that you cant que in starcraft makes things
alot more able to be precise on what you are building and how much of what.. when you que 50 tidals
on a water map that can cost you the game if you truely only need 5 or 6.... but that jsut makes the possibility for ta to be more in depth
which no one is at that level of ta .. well i dont know anyone .. besides me that is
and micro does own on any game ANY real time game that is

not to mention in real war you dont tell your guys to do 100 things.. they bring you updates
and then you say oh well do this .. then they tell you how that worked out and you give them
another order you dont say, 1st go over here shoot this wall.. then immediatly go over here and
shoot this miner field.. oh and damn then go over and curve around this rock,, then go and shoot that tank o_O
do you? that would be suicide.. people counter to much to give so many orders in REAL time..

"because they were preparing for an attack of some other kind, or they presumed I was in a situation I wasn't"

if people where better at ta .. scout planes would be all over the place and no one would presume anything
i dont presume much but i know exactly whats happening 99% of the time there is no sneaky stuff
sometimes i cant handle everything good enough and 1 flash may slip through but i just won the other 15 battles
and i will handle that flash in due time.. just as in sc.. its all about awareness and speed

nun of this sneaky stuff you win 1 outa 50 times with wierd crap.. atleast in SC with the use of magic things
there is some pretty freaky things that can happen.. example... you are playing
neo silent vortex , lower right is protoss, lower left is zerg, not to mention in sc you dont KNOW all the time
where people start.. not many maps have predetermined spots.. anyways the zerg takes 3 expansions quick
the toss trys to attack with zealots , but the zerg player moves half his lings behind the lots and traps them and ends up killing them
with quick building and sending of more and more .. he then hs hydras and lurkers and flows to the front of tosses base.
he has overlords to see observers and lil suicide bats that kill air things waiting..for drop ships
the protoss player from most perspectives would be dead.. and should say gg.. but he hassum sneaky flour..
just like 90% of sc games can have sneaky flour .. he goes arbitar..and techs up the recall ability..
he gets some templars .. and does hulllucination on his arbitar.. so when he leaves the zerg player sends his bats
and hits all the wrong ones.. the arbitar arives at the zerg base and recalls 30 zealots.. the zerg player
comes the toss gets out and expands.. game over..

thats some sneaky flour.. nothing like that in taNOTHING
but ta ownz

neverborn: all units in ta shoot while moving, meaning whoever has the right units in the right
spots will hit more than the other player.. making it just as much micro, a flash moves faster than a sampson.. if you arent quick to move
and radar target over and over.. your sam will die. just as a zealot ownz any ground unit 1vs1
well not archons or darkys or ultras.. but you know what i mean smaller units
so unless you are a newb.. its not a slugfest by any means...
so by all means microing units is just as effective..

"Every shot they waste trying to hit a reaver as it's loaded into a shuttle is a
shot not doing any damage to your army. TA simply doesn't have any form of micromanagement
on that level."

of course ta has things on that level, when you fire at a mex, you are not shooting the army that will
in terms kill your unit and you get a wrekage from.. now you can either cltr d that
unit fast enough so he gets no wreks or perhaps the defender is good enough to dance around the mex
and kill your flash , or perhaps you are chasing a construction unit, you can defend that or hide
a unit behind a tree? and thats one shot not hit.. or you move the hurt ones back and let the knewer ones fight
im sure you know you can do that in sc too.. but ta and sc are simalar in the strategy abilitys,
ta has more depth i think but.. the skill level in sc is far superb to most of ta players

and all this crap about how it takes time to learn things, that is all BS.. some people ARE
smarter than others.. but not maggot hehe

kennedy take your head outa your hampsters nutsack, stop talking about rules on forums..
who the heck cares if someone posts alot sheesh get OVER IT FFS!!
, wow another post about causing trouble? a few posts down? omg.. what a turbo gosu dumbass haha!!

"Caspar, for one, why in the flying flour would you que up 1000 units? 100 I can see,
but 1000 is ridiculous. Also, for starters, TA is able to que units 5 at a time by default,
and 100 at a time with TADR."

grumble: you shoulndt argue about a cheat that was added by lazy people
that will get ta in this arguement no where

ffs this is fun i bet my post will look so gheyed and dumb for the most part no one will rememeber
what im replying too this sucks hahaha
reading on

atleast there is meelee units o_O , not to mention things in sc take few shots to kill compared to ta
things, so its only reasonable for things to hold still and be way more accurate while fireing

"Now, in SC, you'd be limited to microing your factories and pumping them out in small groups...
in TA, I'd just build like 8 vehicle plants and 2 Kbot labs, assign 4 vehicle plants to build
50 Flashes each, 4 vehicle plants to build 50 Samsons each, and the 2 Kbot labs to build 50
Rockos each. All of them are given a move order so that 2 of each group of vehicle plants is
going to the middle of the map, and one to each side. The Kbot labs are going all to the middle,
since that's where most of the MTs are and MT busting is what Rockos do best."

you do know that , what you just said is very sloppy and will cause you the game vs someone that
controls thier lesser units much better heh......

"Now, after about 5 minutes, you've got a horde of around a hundred units in the
middle and 50 on each side... you've expended a vast amount of metal, and your opponent
has caught on but isn't doing anything. Bravely your forces advance."

so you are saying that you are playing newbs?
buzzsaws? you got to be kidding me.. omg im laughing so hard bomber hordes waiting?
omg that is what lack of strats are.. making things that arent usefull.. at the moment they are made..
sorry

pic: cool i just read my post.. omg pic STFU YOU NEWB!

grumble.. in a realistic manner? in real life missle to air trucks dont shoot at ground units 2 inches from them, and tanks dont shoot guns
through thier base and and and.. they dont shoot over thier units.. so much is not real
this isnt real the only real part is the strategy involved.. its all war

casper:
sigh its not made for the lazy player.. the less lazy more strategical player STILL wins
and naming the units is easy

and there is always need for macro/micro

on top of that.. every newb has said what you said they say omg im evil i hope i get flamed

and if you where better at SC mr man, and playing better players. youd rarely have that many
of any labs more like 6-7 tops of all kinds ,maybe a few more if yer zerg but not 20... better players
are to good with things to let that happen "usually"

reading on....

offspring:
um, scouting is plenty effective, if you dont wait for 5 years while they put up tons of stuff, every
bit of metal counts just like in sc, if someone puts 5 cannons on the edge where something scouting may come in
it dies but you just lost ALOT of recourses to stop a scout.. same goes for ta .. but on a smaller level
not to mention offscreen planes ,and you dont litter maps like comet with anti air in the back or am i wrong?

how do you think you get to outnumber people? you get to when you have more recourses same goes for
anygame if you both have 5 cons 100 sams +25 metal, its about unit control and how often your units fire
and hit compared to thiers.. sending them to the right spots and being quick.. has nothing to do
with just ssending them in and crushing someone.. if thats the case.. you are playing someone
with much lower skills sorry :\


the SC nuke along side the TA nuke can harly really be called nukes.. neither do tons of damage..
not to mention the bugs in ta where anti nukes dont always work which makes it worse.. if you kill
the ghost its over with.. and yes seeing the shots does make a difference.. you can see wheere
off screen things come from , has strategic purpose.. mmmhmmm

Triped: i am elegent and you needa watch me play so you can say damn this guy is good
and egotistical.. thats the best part

Ianworld: if you are top of your ta game.. you wont be selecting ALL of your guys.. you will be gathering
12 or more units but you will be fighting in 10 differnet spots since you have so many more guys
i dont see how you can stop in ta either? i switch the units from my labs 50 times a game usually
heck you dont even need a mouse to que labs in sc.. just number them and press the hotkey you want
its not that big of a deal seeing as how you cant stall .. as you can in TA

the plop down method? wtf? lol, and if they did these tests , and said the game was much better
why arent they trying to buy the rights for ta and rerelease it? cause you just explained ta in
a nutshell.. not to mention in SC all you do is plop it down
and protect it and expand .. am i not right?... expect eat crystal is like 10 mexes just cause it goes
away doesnt mean its a worse game.. in real life it goes away ..
even in all the other rts games it goes away .. ta is the least popular.. of them all ...
but i think ta ownz but the non perm recourses in other games doesnt take away from game play
in my opinion..
and as for air units being able to be quick response.. they are not as strong as SC planes. nuff said

oh joy PAGE flourIN 5!!!!! :\

there isnt so much more to SC, TA players are just not good enough.. oi vay people nowadays :\
infact there is mass more to ta if you take out the cheats heh...the recorder functions that is

what are you talking about rougue? you have compleete control over units in any game you play .. any game i can think of
you just have to use them right sigh
sigh sigh sigh
and if you are talking about non mobile structures.. get over it.. they dont count as units
lmao

personally i find watching ta players much to the annoying state.. cause they are not good players :\
i enjoy watching a starcraft vod a few times a week but i cant stand watching ta newbs :\
if you watch SC good players you think oooo this is how real war would be..
not like choppers but the whole.. strategy its based around.. how to get into places. how to attack
where to attack and when.. the timing of it all.. if you watch ta players.. you can totally tell 99% of the time
they dont have a clue near what time to attack and why they are expect to HOPE and kill things
oh well..

"I have watched high level SC players and I AM a high level TA player.
I would be able to beat boxer 10 times in SC before he even got close to beating me in TA
Please dont get into skills being better here because you wont
win ok? Stick with your unique races and spells"
^
lol at high level ta players being NEWBS
i bet you anything if boxer played for a month hed own you in ta, and i bet you if you played for
1 year you woulndt beat him once
--------
novice:ANY AND ALL RTS games are reaction games.. from the moment you see something of someones it
becomes reaction , weather you think about it or not.. people in ta lack scouting .. so i dont even
see how you can be saying its a game of reaction when you dont even know
nearly close to whats going on or going to happen next?

and from assumptions such as i saw some dots thinking peewees. thats more of guessing than reaction

theldon= biggest turbo chobo n00ber , ive seen on this thread besides prez
if you arent able to delve into the shear complexity of ta.. then you shoulndt be talking
the commander can own more zerglings than any mage
so STFU PWNED!!!!!!!

and for your info.. i dont recall the last nuke i made kthnx BG laaaahoooo srrrrrrr!!!!
ahhhhh the falacies AHHHHHH!!!

novice :HAHAHA at yer massive post.. txts ownz

Prez ken:
"I'm quite sure you would not appreciate us coming into your forums
and bringing up stuff that was talked about a year ago"

thats got to be the stupidest thing ive seen from you yet.. its none of your flourin buisness
where he posts get over yourself and plz as i said b4 leave the hamster alone! FFS!@!

not to mention we all really should go spam SC forums to get them to play TA and other games to
we have no promotion all them other games do sigh :\

"Now we have StarCrafters coming in and causing trouble."
omg this is trouble?? someone plz MUG this poor fool

not to mention if you dont play online you dont really PLAY AT ALL.. so who are you to speak
of things you dont have any clue about?
the SC ai is much better than the ta ai.. expect the super cheating 3rd part ones. but thats
super cheats so screw that .....

"This thread needs to be laid to rest."
plz look in the mirror at your small dick and reread the idiocy you posted

cool 2 owned

Casper: you are flouring funny.. as you stated, over and over and over lmao.. sc doesnt suck
over and over and over lol..... its so true.. i dont see why you still post.. musta taken ages to come here to post all
the damn time
not that i mind.. reading this is fun like southpark woot
flour I WANT A 2 lb BURGER!!

YOU flour!!
ps: i agree fully with only making what you need. but it goes for ta to if you dont just sit and wait
and make things happen.. if you know what i mean

neverborn: there is barely any unit variety in ta, over half of the units are
BETTER not used.. and 99% of the time there is no need for them..
so sorry if these newbs gave you false impression .. but better players do use a bit more than flashes and sams
on most maps heh..

casper: its so funny that you list the units cause it shows the lack of units used in ta..
on 90% of sc maps you use 90% of the units listed maybe minus 1 -2 per game but mostly all get used
in ta.. you have the option to build hella units.. btw 250 units is including buildings which
i noticed you left out.. ta buildings count as units..and as for the mobile ones. drop ships are rarely used
besides on island maps seeing as how they take 2 shots to kill and carry 1 unit :\
and outa any lab you make.. which is 4 labs for each tech plus a 5th for sea planes 9 labs total
.. you usually make the SCV type unit and 2-3 kinda units from that lab.. thats about 36 units
and in most games you only need 2-3 kinda labs well, in 80% of games so thats only 6-12 units..
which sucks for having so many
which just SUCKS :\

reasons why ta sucks:
no good players, no tourneys, no cool magic spells besides dgun and a few crap cloack things
bugs, cheats that are accepted, lag, comp differences/resolution differences, messed up maps,
plants always facing down, tonsa units no reasonable use for them, hmmmmm thats all i can think of
i would say no upgrades but with the abundance of recourses that would be to easy to have them
all uped..

page 5 "Ignorance is bliss Casper, I'm done" thebarbar
i bet he posts more ;D

casper: wind effects big guns in real life, to a very small ammount.. not to mention people in real life
account for wind, when you see snipers.. they have wind measureing devices and they take that into account
when they fire thier arctic magnums.. can shoot up to 3/4 miles accurately.. with givin good winds
without good winds you could very well miss something sooo far away

sadistic sid: 200 units that are able to attack repair /defend do things such as that isnt that bad
in 80% of ta games you dont get more than that many mobile ones. and sc unit counts are based on
mobile so its pretty close in that nature.. recourse raiding isnt the easiest thing in the world..
people expect it. they prepare for that tank.. those tanks are rare at the start cause of the risk
that goes with losing hella recourses .. tanks cost more than labs
you can turn the unit sounds off,music off,and there is ramps and higher ground.. some units cant shoot
up walls and when they do they dont hurt as much as the people shooting down..
that should be enough for any ta player.. i dont see any ta player accounting for the physics in ta
to be a better player .. RARELY
so people should get over the 3d and physics part, on the majority of maps
its easier to raid TA recources seeing as how you have to protect more spots.. there is rarely choke points


"Thank you Casper, you're very nice for saying that. You don't know who any of us are,
so how could you say something like that? Quite frankly, we don't want you here either."
casper dont take any regards to what he said there. he speaks for no one
except the hamster lords
ps: you need to really STFU about double posts and forum things omg that makes me sick sheesh
and you are really one to speak about being nice FFS!

neverborn: nice post near the end of page 6
ramirez: ditto

rouger3: the better awnser would be.. your reading this is a waste of time and in vain.. obviously people are enjoying this debate
weather you know enough about it to be part of it or not

btw sorry for the attacks on certain people but DAMNIT THEY DESERVE IT!
ps: notices prez's waste of time


WOOOHOOO!!!!HAHAHAHA PAGE 7 ... omg this is takening ages im a newb reader :\
reading on

mr-sid: i find random startings alot more fullfilling in the aspect of playing a certain map
many times.. if you start on certain spots on any map there will be a dramatic change un what
occurs throughout the game.. you exapand to different spots.. using different things.. protecting from
different angles.. and such, i dont see why if the positions on ta are unfair as it is.. how
its sensible to start people in unfair spots? example gods of war, 400 rocks on small island and 250 on the right side
you get that mex close to you. in the water, but you also dont have the lower edge of the screen where
somoene can put an air lab and is very hard to have your lab units get shot at..
things like that make randomness alot better...

moddability, doesnt really matter much when you think of how few players play ta... no one
plays the mods.. making it sigh.. to say the least boring.. :\

"More precise control over individual or group unit behaviour."
if you have more control over it, why is there randomness?

"Huge possible resolutions for those with larger monitors."
which is by far unfair nuff said

btw plz dont be GAMErISt haha anew word
nice post though
--
casper: "StarCraft is for the quick thinkers, fast clickers and good strategists.
And definitely not for the lazy considering you're doing something from start to end."

the best of the newb ta players do stuff from start to end.. they lack being strategist and such
but they do click you cant win vs the best of the newbs if you dont clikc the whole game..
its fast paced.. con units build many USEfull things.. and at the start there is always attacking
and defending.. and yes where to counter with what, and later in the game you can have countless constrution units
SCV type units, which make metals/energy/ defensive attacking structures,things to shield other things
when you have that many SCV type units.. there is no stopping id say i click faster in TA than SC
you cnt hotkey labs,con units you have to always click on what you want to make.. so its even more
clicking in that sense.. and the shift que feature.. doesnt really matter. but if you know you need
it later or can afford it , sorta like the -if you hurt someone at one spot yer allowed to get some
more expansion deal.. in sc...so you have to click all the things you want just like you would in SC
only if you are good you cant afford it in sc anyways so its all good.. dont know why people care
about that so much..
and then you also have to click where to attack/radar targeting / check on peepers and scout units
things dont travel the map as fast as in sc.. so you can set up attacks and other things whiel you wait
but you HAVE to set other things up while you wait.. not just a base but the follow attacks from previous
scouts are happening and such.. just like SC you have to reque labs i mean if you are good enough to
realize you have to, you have to reque cons already clicked.. which sucks..
well i think i got my point accross ill move on

casper again:" As for the counters. Having strong counters helps bring more
types of units into play hence us using 80-90% of units for both races EACH game on average."

ta has the possibility very much so to use mass counters. people are to simple to do it with perfection
if you put a flash squad infront of a hammersquad o which is infront of a sampson group and some rockos
flanking them to hit thier incomers.. that is a perfect combo
but most of the time it cant be done good enough to make it work , but i tell you if some of the
people playing stepped up thier gaming they could do it
and i beleive tech units would come into play if people got good enough if you have enoughmetal,
you can build a lab quick with enough con units since they can help eachother build..
it would help if the game engine didnt cause ta to have computer issues heh..

anyways reading on

id like to say one thing.. none of you made ta or sc, so stop saying or engine this or engine that or
game this our game that lol

casper again:
"Also, anything made to shoot over the range of a mile is poorly designed if
it can't make it loses moment before it reaches said destination."

i think he was refering to hand held guns not ones on planes and tanks
GW though

most of the units are flour cold fusion haha, the commander is high tech he repairs slowly but he does
all units are able to be repaired through nano.. but not thier own.. most units take energy of some kind
to either fire or move.. hence you make energy and your nano thingys work

sorry to say casper but, if you shoot a gun straight forward it really does hit the ground at the same
rate as a bullet dropped.. if you shoot it up at any angle.. it wont but that is only logical
if its perfectly level itll scrape the ground as the other hits..... :\ best way to easy test that
is go to a batting cage.. have them level the ball shooter. point it out .. then moment you see the ball, drop the one in your hand
youll see they hit very close and i bet you let go to slow and yours hits after the one shot

neverborn: nice post half way down 7 again
when he said random i think he meant.. ta players always start in the same 2 spots.. or same
4 spots if 2vs2 ect
chess one of the best in history hehe, hence that word

"I don't think there's anything in TA that requires as much skill as killing four
or five cannons in a toss base with 12 mutes (one of a million examples)."

one of 1million for ta is.. bombing 15 defneders on an island that you want to kill with 5 bombers
within 15 seconds , so that they cant rebuild.. i bet you anything i can kill 5 cannons in a toss
base right now with 12 mutes, and you wont be able to bomb 15 defenders unmarked..scouted only
1 time with 5 bombers in 15 seconds unless thats all you practice for 1 month i bet itll take
you 1 year easy ... that is so much harder to micro than the mute stuff, but i do think storming at the right
spots with LOTS of temps.. is close while protecting them with some lings and a few goons

casper:
" then obviously it doesn't have the power to send the projectile at the velocity
needed to reach said destination and therefore the physics engine of yours is actually
making the game worse for you because the weapons cannot do the intended purpose while in
reality if someone wanted a weapon to shoot from America to Japan, they would sure as hell
make sure it has the power to reach the destination before it's trajectory gets augmented
by the gravitational pull"

not if the factored it in...... they arent straight shots they are arched.. shot up 1st....

and personaly i dont like all the physics some of it is good.. such as the heights and such but i dont
like the randomness of some guns.. if i turn a big boat a certain way.. will it miss to a certain side?
or always the same side? or a random miss? i cant use the boat right if its random.. know what i mean
...not to mention the long range cannons, i may fire at thiers for 5 minutes, and they make thiers
and shoot mine in one shot.. thats not fair at all, randomness sucks , if in real life someone says
fire at sector b5 east or some flour.. they hit it

BG??

rogue3:
"I don't wish to span this thread another 6 pages of pointless deadlocked cornbabble.
We like TA hence we are here. You like
SC, looks like you took a wrong turn pal. Be on yer merry way. "

maybe this dude is gonna play ta someday, that would own another TA PLaYER YAY!!.. and you want
them all to leave .. gheyed lameish pubecent n00becent TURBO SLUT! haha

LMFAO
SID: HAHAHAHAHAHAAH maybe he watched the raod runner and the coyote to much.. and saw him run
off cliffs and stay there.. for 1 second then fall lol !!! HAHAHAHA omg...

btw stop being mean thats lame :\

about the unit limit, it sucks cause its there? the krogoth/vulcan sucks and its there.. no SC'ers
that play ta complain about it LMAO!!!!

about health bars, neverborn, when you mentioned the skill it takes to move mutes around,
it takes the same skill to move FFs, smaller boats.. missle shooting units.. anything so that more survive
you can awlays repair and just move them behind eachother .. so newer ones take shots while your hurt one
still shoots.. that is skill ........

and i again state with the superior ammount of metal production ability, and energy... an upgrade would have to cost so much
it would not be fesible to make it something common, its like should i upgrade? and hope he dont attack EVER?
or maybe ill go krog instead... see what i mean?
oh well
and there is vet units BTW

flour yah page 8
5 more to go then a whole new thread i havent checked how many 100 that has sigh :\

sadisticsid:"Wrong. Most games on Painted Desert - a large map - often surpass 500,
which is seen as a comfortable maximum for most maps. And that is per side. "

i find myself to be decent at ta, and i rarely if ever hit max 500 on painted desert..
i rarely hit 250...... and thats a game i win not lose.. and thats 250 units/structures
not just units

casper:
"When I say equal, I mean in force. Where you can have 500 units each side and
the force still be equal... assuming they have the correct counter units for each."

nope if one side has 500 krogoths theres nothing the other side has that can match that..
wellyou can only have uhm, 498 but thatd take forever
but with the build times.. its ok.. unless something went wacko and someone let someone build that many
to make the sides uneven,but yes i do think certain units should take more space.. that is something
ta shoulda had, oh well
and yes id like to mention your 200 unit post was brilliant

"I'd like to see someone micro 5,000 units... effectively that is."
give me a good computer and ill show you

Schroeder: OMG YOU OWN.. YOUR POSTS OWN!!!
come again!! would you like fries with your milkshake BEE-aATch! HAHAHAH!!
that is the best.. i always say come again omg yer my hero!!

casper:
more like .2 seconds

static d in nearly any game is only good if people carelessly attack.. im sure you knowwhat i mean
there is great counters for ta static D even with the ability to make fusions and such,

btw you did a great job this far in your debate..

12 zerglings? for 1 zealot?o_O didnt catch that oh well..
oh flour i see what you mean just from this, well i can make 12 flashes while
my opponent might op for another plant and the recourses to run it.. does that matter?
i mean was that like yer arguement? damn im good WOOT!! hhooohaaa gg thanks though:P
ps: i didnt read your other post i just know what you mean

the only rebuttle for not having 50k players.. is that the people who made this game
are complete and utter idiots

all rts games are micro weather you admit it or not
things have to be in the right place t the right time.. and having 600 units in the right place
at the right time can be harder than having 25-35 units at the right place if you know what i mean

ta fans are just ta fans.. ill speak for them, most dont know flour about SC

"No one rebutted my point about the strategy in SC and how the only
ones they were bringing up were the novice strategies."
im to lazy to go more in depth than i previously noted in my post .
but its the same.. if one guy makes to many con units.. he gets owned in ta..
it comes down to unit control after that, but most of the time in ta.. since there arent many
and most suck anyways.. you dont even have to micro.. but if its = skilled players.. the one who
has a second of less micro or better moves.. or 1 less con at the right time or 1 more.. will win
if they can keep up with the counters.. JUST like SC

btw TA IS NOT BALANCED.. it is map vs map, but all races should be balanced on all maps..
hence a counter .. but in ta that isnt the case :\...

cool i get to argue

Neverborn: i can non idle 15 hatcherys in SC"when i understand what certain units somewhere in sc
means better im going to go to WGC"im fast and smart enough
just not exactly sure of everything yet only played a few months and cant find GOOD players :\
, i bet you cant not idle 35 cons, i bet you cant play on the biggest non metal regular
ta map, and get every metal patch and not excess and not idle
any cons, and not make ANY attackers and not make metal storage
and not stop making construction units with your 1st lab and commander gaurding it
kthnx I WIN GG!!
ps: for the record thats getting boring without a cash prize LOL!!!!

casper: i agree SC has more options promt from the start.. dropping tanks actually has a purpose.. infact DROPS have REAL purpose
in ta its a rareity, dropping small units on big ones such as lots and tanks.. in ta if the map is air
you go air.. if its sea you go sea.. if its land you go vehcle ... if its mixed.. you go whatever
can hit mexes best near start.. sigh :\ there is no options like on forbbiden zone...
zerg , terran.. Z goes fast overlord upgrades for drops like ALWAYs.. cause he cant get down any other way..
terran has 3 choices..he can get a command center.. and drop it down quick.. or he can get
drop ships.. "faster" than zerg by a lil.. or he can go super fast wraiths and take out the zergs
overlords setting him wat back.. and if hes quick enough and bold enough he will get the ones near
the edge getting ready to drop the 1st loads.. in ta if there was a map like that
and metal patches youd go air of course or WALK your com down hahaha!!.....but if you coulndt.. youd
always go air.. and bomb thier start spot and atlas your com down.. ALWAYS nothing would be better
if you went vehcel .. youd be stuck at start and that atlas the other guy has +bombers would own
you ... the z player could also go air.. and fast rush other guys start spot with mutes.. or be
expecting of some wraiths and get some scourg thingys.. but you know what i mean.. there is alot of things to do
and as the game progresses with .. techs.. it sprouts.. to like 150 things and whoever does them
best.. and with COOLEST flour the best .... and hardest risky flour.. the best wins..
in ta it gets to be alot of things.. but near the start its always the same.. which sucks heh....
blah im rambling

moving on
oh flour i didnt even notice im on page 9 haha

"Also, TA uses luck as a major component while SC
only contains luck from human error but the rest is skill."

i dont see where ta requires so much luck? besides the ocassianal luck shots from berthas. but
if super good games berthas arent a factor much anyways... so its just liek you said ..
it just doesnt matter.. other than that.. i dont see much luck.. its not often you shoot something
and hit something else.. besides perhaps a nuke and something happens to move where you shot
which same could happen with SC, i do like the feature in TA over SC that you can target the ground
and hope to hit things.. educated guess you know? .. but you cant target" nothing" in sc which
is a downer.....

and about the errors its true.. people rarely drop lines unless its a NEW expansion or in the middle of a fight
but then most good players will expect that and try and prepare.. and if they cant :\ they just cant

ORKY SOUL, your post is soooo funny the end anyways..
a GOOD ta player is attacking all game in some form or another. is always queing something.. con units
more than labs. labs ALOT though seeing as how you need different counters..
but yes you are funny

rouge3: you and alot of ta players seem to be stuck on realism.. in real life.. you flourin micro
your damn troups.. you dont send them in carelessly to battle.. you make sure there is a medic
or a few with them.. some artillery dudes.. some guys with the rifles and the knife on the end..
and some monsters with swords of course
and fat dead elephants

ah flour me i just looked to see how many posts are on the othere there is 90:( this sucks

neverborn:
"The first RTS you get good at always takes by FAR the longest."
ta took me 1 month to master. damn i must be a god at RTS .. took me a few days to be GOOD at aoe
and Red Alert, if i play 5 games of SC and get my rythem withhotkeys.. im DAMn good..
you are right some people suck at RTS

"If anyone says I only think it's slow because I suck at it, you haven't
played a fast paced game of SC =)"
if you think ta isnt fast paced you never played a fast paced game of it

but in rebuttle to me.. spellcasters.. do make it cool

"Edit: 10 construction vehicles? rofl It would take like 30 construction vechicles
with a que limit of 10 each all building defenders to match the click speed of what I was
talking about =["
Just do what i said.. play yerrot mountains against the AI.. and cap every single mex.. and dont excess
and stay under 4% excess energy and make nothing but cons.. and whatever they happen to make ..
other than storage ...and at the exact moment you have all the mex you have to have
radar coverage as well of the whole map.. and not one mex can be out of range of a defender
so you can say you stoped jeffies.. and so you click more than one thing at a time. good luck

ive watched the TOP TOPPPPP SC players micro units.. and that isnt the hard part about any of this
its all in whats gonna happen next.. like in chess.. but its real time.. with more than a few things
same in ta though :\
oh well i find both games very simalar.. with ta having slightly more depth
and without anyone exploiting that depth to its full potential.. but i cant blame them
there is no reason to..

--------

OrkySoul: i dont plan on taking a year to enter WGC or something anything

okram: i think they are more interested in playing rather than making cool new useless units
if you really took over for cavedog.. maybe you should get people to play ta.. rather than making
more units and more maps that wont be played...?

This is a great site if you just want to watch a few videos of starcraft games..
you dont even need SC for it.. maybe you will see how intense it gets.. and how fast they do things
at some points in the games they will show you the ACTUAL clicking of people like
when you do sharemappos.. and wtach the demo on someones view.. you see where they move
in SC you see how slow .. err imean FASt they click http://www.ghemtv.com/program/s_league.html
also you can go to www.broodwars.com or maybe no sor maybe a Z i forget lol....
anyways they have links to mass replays and vods all through the news..

and no orky thats not all you do in ta.. that is for the scared non strategic non adaption player.

novice: i dunno.. some SC players are MASSS quick once you know whats good ... and what people could have
its all about the quickness and where to go with it.. which you get from any rts

twigathy: its not much of a game if you need mods.. to make it good eh? to want to play something
because of itself is a good game..
ta ownz though
ps: im just out to bash everyone

conq:
SC is a great game, it reminds me of chess a bit.. certain units can make certain moves..
you just do it in groups of 20 or so.. instead of 1.. same goes for ta.. but i woulndt say its chess like.
cause units are to agile..and i dont see how you think ta isnt intense :\
or that SC is to intense or something babbles :\

Continued in next post because message contains 91755 characters. The maximum number of allowed characters is 60000.

[zwzsg]

Continuation of previous post, second part of PicarDOH quote, on the subject of micro in the context of TA vs SC:

Prez, ya sid you saved him from being a total idiot.. good job

JoesGeo:"Einstein's universe "
ok lets get one thing friggin "straight"!
this is NOTTTTTTTT i repeat NOTTTTTTTTTTTT his universe

omg this is better than saturday night live live even!!!

dam i sure wish i had the demos of my latest games .. they where badass :\
i coulda shown da SC'ers that woulda been cool
oh yah page 10..!

anyone wanna own me at sSC ? im bored..

reaper: the makers modded CS not the players.. infact tonsa players hate most mods that come out
they are so floured
which is also why most SC players and most TA players play the original stuff.
but in half life you cant find servers with OLD mods... so yer flour outa luck

tarrsk: as i posted b4 an example. of how to win a game when you are totaly screwd in Sc.. there is
MANY more ways to do that in SC as well.. that was just one example..
and you say its not possible cause you run outa things.. so then come back b4 you run out lol

have you ever watched the movie "we were soldiers"? the gerneral was on the battlefield
giving orders thats nearly like what you do in SC.. much more so than ta.. but if you are good enough
youll do it in ta anyways, just instead of one unit at a time since there is no cool units like that
in ta.. you use 5 or 6 ..

Neverborn: i dont have broodwars yet.. do you know where i can get vods of the boxer game?
or a way to watch Bw games without it? ill get it soon so its not a big deal but if you know
itd be nice as i prepare thanks

i saw a 1.5 hour 2vs2 on Big game hunters with "elky, grrr,hotforever, and yellow"and a 1 hour 3vs3
same people with 2 more i forget.. and i no good ta players will make games 5 hours thats ghey
and if they are 5 hours there wont be much crap involved.. people must be killing eachother all over the place
and there will be very if any techs.. itll be just like the 1st 20 minutes over and over and over
and over .... which is cool but if you suck i guess you could have tonsa wierd ass 3rd party units and porc

Prez? how can you play against a pos computer for 5 hours??? that must suck for you.. and you must bore the comp

yay page 11... my eyes hurt brb

Prez: ill have you know.. the best ta games of my life.. lasted from 10-40 minutes
not some crap 5 hours..
"Maybe you have too much time on your hands for coming in here and rustling up
and all but dead topic, as I've pointed out before."
and maybe you are an annoying hamster stuffing prick .. get over it

Gamma: why isnt gamma banned? tatel tail..
why isnt kennedy dead? errrbanned? .. hes reposting the same dead topic crap which obvioisly made out to be
a good topic.. and you all fail to care .. you obviously spend time reading it cause, you want
to hear what some people have to say.. and if you dont just go the f away.. i bet i get
banned or something for all my flames oh well
i quit ta soon anyways this is bs!

Neverborn: ill tell you this much.. i never porc EVER.. and i love open maps.. you get to micro soo much
its mass non stops.. you must find all the con units.. killem or make sure you have someone ready to kill it b4 it totally sneaks away
or back to thier base.. you have to stop each unit.. there is no chokes where you just sit 3 units and
stop whatever comes.. cause you have SUPER FAST SCVs for backup .. if a few units slip through.. and your commander is not near
your start lab? you have to make sure have a con somewhat near your lab. just incase they sneak it in
and stuff it so you cant get guys out..
if you dont have the con ready.. your lab is useless for a certain amount of time.. like pylons
but yah you watched newbs .. most likely :\

i dont know of a site either with good demos.. and i dont record ... but we could play some if you like..
n when i get BW we can play that unless youll settle for reg :\.... oh well.. if you have msn
or icq.. you seem cool.. mebbe we could play some..

Prez:"Well, if you want to talk about what we've agreed on, bring up the fact that
many of us have agreed that you SC guys are just here to cause trouble."
us? you mean your idiocy? ok

Gamma: thats prettyy mean of you.. i have to say one thing about most of the admin sorta roll people
floating around the ever small ta community.. i DUN LIKE THEM!!! "most"

also refering to GD2, i havent had a game that lasted over 12 minutes on that map 1vs1 in the last 30 times
i played it.. atleast that many.. defending gets you killed .. com cant stand up to so many missle units and when he runs
littler units are free to move in yer toast if you try and makedefense GD2= sc TA at its finest in my opinion.. the only differnce
is that you get dragons teeth,, but if the attacker is QUICK about it.. no dragon teeth are gonna be up.. not enough to matter

neverborn: sure you can win with fast fusion , alot of the techs you would use for certain things, are map
specific.. but there are alot more techs in TA than SC but not enough people play enough maps
to tech often if you know what i mean? 10 min fusion is great for evad, if you are playing a bertha player
and then you tech back up to adv kbots and pel rush them and get boats for boat transport .. and transport a few mavricks and
construction units and start taking thier land.. just like its a land map but you need a bit of tech for it.. not to mention
things in ta do cost a bit more.. 600 for a lab where the biggest unit outa it normally is 150 metal or so
plus couple thousand energy, well as for SC the biggest unit costs more than a laB infact.. people
fly labs around as Terran to scout alla time cause they cost so little and can take so many hits

so teching is risky.. cause plants cost alot.. but if you do it at the right time and for
the right reasons .. it can own people up.. unless air is good on a map.. not easily defended..
and has alot of choke points advanced is a common fast teching option....
oh well

i watched slayer vs , yellow , on hall of vannhella or something..
slayer was top and yellow directly south .. yellow was owning the crap outa slayer atleast.. i thought so
and infact he was.. but then yellow was trying to finish him off.. with lurker/hydra/darkswarm
and slayer had like 5 tanks all on the top.. a bit out of reach of some of the battles goin on ..
he was usuing marines meds and science most of the time.. since he was short on money.. boxer just lost all his
expansions , and yellow had 3 sstill, boxer had 25 marines /firebats/medics and 4 balls..
yellow came with 20-30 odd hydras and 10-15 lurkers.. everything he had.. of course hes still making more
but its out of reach at the time.... so boxer does the flour and irradiates like5 of the hydras killing 10 or 15
then the marines engage and yellow swarms.. and b4 the lurkers burrow .. slayers so quick and he knows
whats going on.. he sends his marines in the swarm as well it was mass funny lol..... then he brings his balls back and and some drop ships
and carrys his stuff away hahahaha, and when the cloud goes away 4 tanks hit his lurkers..
slayer then dropped all expansions near same time.. with bats marines and meds.. and yellow gave up when slayer
came with 4 tanks and 20 odd marine med bats...
that was coming back if i ever saw it.. besides the protoss zerg thing i explained
the protoz zerg was.. garimto and.. hot forever

Maggot:"Really if you dont play both games then shut up "
i belevie he mentioned he plays ta a little

oh flour dude "Then what was the point of your post? You shut up too !"
that was the best post yet LOL!!!!!!! HAHAH!!! beeee-atch!

theldon: "Its a lost cause. TA = CHOBOZONE"
I resent that Beeatch!

omg this is like basketball and football and hockey .. and rugbee and soccer..
oh flour you play soccer?you suck.. YOU SUCK ASS, what are you thinking, you cant use your hands!
omg you rugbee lazy ass players.. flour that soccer is ghey .. you have a net to catch the goal and
some defender? no sport in that flour.. how can he not block it? ..... omg basketball? you can
slam dunk.. thats to easy ..HAHAHAH!! this is stupid like me

gamma: i have to disagree.. you are gonna be worse at sc , the newbs watch world champs play..
and are still newbs.. the ta vets are sc newbs.. sc vets not champs have a better chance of being
decent at ta quicker.."chance" not for sure.. some people play off memory.. but i dont think
born does.. not to mention.. 20 games or so that he played is ALOT.. for a ta newb.. of a few days.
average play like. 100 in a month or 2.. if you are dedicated to starcraft and are a newb. you play
100-200 a week.. we all know the best part of ta is the beggining 20 minutes.. 20-40 which is basically
SC in a nutshell without spells
there is just a long game aspect.. oh well nuff said

hahaha i own page 12

theldon:
i started ta just after pgl happened.. those where all flour ass ta players.. compared to the
mediocre players of today... youd get owned at"1st" sorry

gomba: "You just came here to bost your half broken english."
what kinda bad mods are you?

"How about you just leave or declare what side you are on
before we flame you out of here. And learn to speak english."
i thought flaming wasnt allowed?

theldon:
you dont see ta there cause there was no promotions for it.. otherwise it would surely be there
theres around 500-600 ta players max thats for to little to be sponsored by such bit tourneys

OMG IM DONE WITH THIS ONE!!! NEXT!! HAHAHA:(
people must think im crazy by now sigh

gamma: do you play ta strictly to press contour in a game? its rare at all that height of decent area sizes
effect game play other than units not being able to go over or shoot over things. sure there is pillars
and mountains.. but sc has things that emulate that as well.

neverborn: elaborate on what you want to hear about strategy if its not in my prior acknowledgements and i will
be pleased to give you info....

theldon:
"What i like about TA is that its really simple, and you dont' have to be good
at RTS to do well. You just have build a lot of tanks fast."

you cant be serious can you? , get real eh? simple? you have to create your own choke points
just because most people dont understand the tru depths of ta..
doesnt make its less strategic or tactical, in SC is it not true that if you "execute" and have 50 tanks
and the other guy has 10 tanks cause hes slower.. he will lose? right its not about mass units
there is a huge ass line between newbs and good players and you are wrong in this sense
people dont play with com death game goes on anymore.. its to much of a strat downer..
it wasnt really meant i think, for that way... you should be keeping him safe.. without a
commander who is gonna lead the fight?
a tank? a rocko? wtf? a fake commander?
get real dude...asdfhalsjdfhasjdfas CHOBO ALL SUPER CHOBO CHOBO FOR LIFE!!!!
ok that wasnt specific enough DUMBO FOR LIFE!

we are talking about games here man, not what comp you need for certain things.. someday comps will be good
enough to run 20k ta units.. so dont give crap about comp restraints o_O ..
ta is a measure of skill as well.. in my most intense game with pretty good players in ta
there is none of this 12391273 units flying around and meshing with eachother.. its nearly like
an SC replay , people go in and shoot units a few times and run out to not lose things
if they arent sure to attack
or make moves.. you dont have 2000 mts spread around carelessly ..
when it comes time you are trying, well atleast i dont..
you put them where you press for an attack.. just like you build a missle tower as terran, to stop
somewhere that you pressed a drop ship too or you drop some dudes there to inntercept..
the fact that metals are often spread out on ta maps.. makes it even harder.. you dont protect a small
ramp.. you have to protect EVERY metal ... losing a metal as you know.. if you lose that 1st zealot
for careless reasons or if you accidently lose a depot or overlord.. can cause you the game
ta has more depth i cant see where you come from at all.. i focus on counters and where people will
attack from next more than you could fathom.. when i watch the vods in sc.. i know whats gonna happen
b4 they do it.. when i see things in hatcherys i know whats building...

taplayers have a lack of depth in that sense more so than not..
has nothing to do with the ability avaible for the game play.. this is not checkers..

rouge3: gws where from cavedog.. cavedog died.. therefore anything beyond the game they made them
selves SUCKS as well haha
by died.. the only thing left is the game :\

but yah its true game ends ownz j00..
no flagrant fouls with coms.. unless you risk losing to powerful of flour

----
and to everyone id seriously like to note i feel 99.5% of ta players are not
good or even close to good at ta...yo yo ego yo

doggy:
in sc you can reatreat and use tanks and such.. so? whats your point?
i think ANYYYYYYYYYYYYYY and all strategy games have the same use of micro.. it depends on your strat
which takes more micro and such.. if you have 15 goons or 25 zealots.. you have less micro for the goons
but the zealots if used againts the right units can potentialy with the right micro do way more damage.
if you suck with zealots.. you might as well make goons in any given moment IF YOU SUCK ...
in ta.. a flash requires more micro.. but you can make nearly as many sampsons and radar target..
but they arent as good if you can get close enough.. get the picture?

if you dont micro.. vs someone that does.. and can micro.. you lose.. end of story.. GG!!!!!!BG?

play aoe.. have a microer vs a non.. GG!! bad try! and eat your wheaties!
and GG YES RE!!

asuka:
what is gamei?
, you dont need less micromanagement vs a better player.. if boxer played vs a newb..
he wouldnt have to micro much would he? but as youve seen in previous statements from me..
micro is difficult at times in ta as well. so ill stop there

gomba:
lmao at your unthought out speach on how easy it is to win at sc lmao
i cant stop laughing.. wow dude.. you are shallow and dim
i wont even comment on this post.. its to... unthought of for me to type out a better counter
than dim
flour i have to say one thing.. the kind of attack you spoke of .. is a waste of units and
that is why you dont see it in SC cause there is 50k players trying not to lose a single unit
so they can with some money and they have fun doing it.. in ta.. there isnt enough people
to have people care about 1 unit so often so you dont see the carefulness of a few tanks as much
even though you should..

example.. sending 5 flashes in a field of crap cause you are to lazy to target on radar..
or you dont have radar which is sad since they cost 50 metal.. or you want to do some damage..
so 7 flashes cost as much as an air lab.. why not make the air lab waste 5 metal seeing the same
ammount if you dont wanna radar target.. kill the things there and then send your units in? and have saved
400 metal or so ?
and remember you can always eat your air lab if you care SOO much
but obviously you dont.. you just send crap in :\

casper:
"I can do it, can you? That's not lacking calibur or complexity."
yah so ?>B) i bet you hate me already

devius:
go watch some demos or read what many of us have posted about people coming back from
haveing no recourses

you are some newb i guess. talking about 4 krogoths and 200 units.. if someone was to let someone
get 4 krogoths and they are an decent player they will have atleast 500 or 1000 units if their limit is
set to that and 4 krogs get owned pretty easy by mass units... and in war people dont wait
till thier opponent has more than them
they find weak spots and exploit them or CREATE weak points and draw people in and then screw
them over cause you have backup right there waiting

people already went over that physics nearly ever matter..

--

wettis:
? cant out manouver units? what in heavens name are you talking about.. early in the game zealots are
pretty much far superior to simple marines but you get 2 marines.. so simply move one.. let one
shoot and repeat that is winning with manouvering right? as born said.. you can drop a vulture which sucks
compared to a dragoon .. and as the goon fires pick up the vulture and repeat.. unmicroed
the goon would kill both the vulture and the drop ship.. that is winning with less and manuvers
right? hmmmmmmm
if not manuvered... a high templar would die to 20 zerglings but if done right you can kill 20
and not get scratched heh....
so after all that
"wettis" plz dont speak when you dont have a clue you are ruining peoples reading time

barbar:
"Its optional, OH yes OPTIONAL you get to choose if you want to micro or not! What an inferior game eh"
OMG!! you made a cool post
you own now.. sorry bout the other posts hahaha

wettis:
in SC you do manuver units and move them around.. you just do it on the very edge of the fireing
range.. people dont run backwards and shoot they might trip same goes for hydras.. and the dude with
the sword wont throw it cause he might not kill the other dude and then hes floured so he just chases
that is why you run to backup.. to create stopage.. and then you work from there

and as for your goliath and flash thing that is hardly micro, when one unit is specifically for killing
units such as the one you mentioned.. remember a loses to b gets owned by c and A flours up c?
you can hardly call something micro if its the easist kind

longbow:
only the commander is worth cloaking so try not and give false impressions

radium: TA has more than three times as many units in 2 races.
get a clue 80% of them are useless and 25% of them are totaly map specific.. to be usefull
that leaves nearly the same , try and make arguements that matter plz

yay i think this is page 2 i forget lol im tired

asuku:
i havent heard either of those terms yet.. yellow drone trick.. i supose named after
the slowish hella good zerg player? and outa the fog? whats that?


Prez:
"On another note, unlike you, most of us don't go around looking to piss
people off on message boards and IRC "SCer!!!"."

and on one OTHER NOTE STFU ABOUT HOW YOU DONT WANT THEM HERE!! leave if you dont want
part of it.. but as we all clearly see you are enjoying reading /posting or you woulndt
now ffs for maybe the last time.. GET OFFF ya hamster!
"but I knew that when you rezzed the long dead topic Casper."

heh i knew you were an idiot the 1st time you posted.. GG

casper:
"You start with low tech, to beat their low tech you have to out mass or go up the
tech tree some... repeat until you're at highest tech. At least that's how they keep
explaining it. Then, once you reach highest tech you just try to out mass."

please stop listening to how newbs play.. its more like SC than you care to think, besides spell
casting..and sometimes you have 50 air units.. and beleive it or not.. if you want to use them
to thier max ability you micro them and whoever does it better wins.. i hate when people
think ta is mass crap and attack thats so blah..
-------


"Resource managment is also a *huge* part of RTS... hence most RTS not having
infinite resources yet you call it tedious. "

uhm.. we have to manage it in a much deeper sense o_O ... just like you.. near our start
we have say 5 metal patches in a good close range.. if we want more we have to make a constructuion unit
or walk with com.. if they gaurd thier lab for all units and the other doesnt they will have more
units.. such as.. the wasteing sacralings on drones or to use for lings o_O
now if you gaurd your lab and make that con.. they will have 2 more units possible.. and
able to kill your con and make it totaly not worth it.. but if you MICRO good enough
since its closer to your base .. just as in SC you are able to pull it off and stop thier attack
there is so much to it just like in SC :\ then you have to make sure.. you are useing
all of your metal up, and not stalling.. hence you can be making +15 and using -150 metal
that means your unuits will only build some every 10 seconds
so when the game gets bigger.. you have +50 metal at about 10-15 minutes.. it becomes
alot more tense cause theres so many things on a decent number of maps that you could expect
weather you peep or not cause of the size.. and things can move around within bases .. or be
hidden under other units .. so you have to at the same time manage your +50 metal you have
to make sure you are not stalling on energy , but not wasteing more than 10 per click
otherwise i beleive thats to much .. if you stall on e.. since all metal takes energy to make
you stop producing metal.. which if you are making +50 and stall for 10 seconds thats 500 metal
5 units.. get the picture? im sure.. we have to know what units to build and which..
so when it comes down to it.. i beleive ta recourse management is harder.. if you stepped up
the play to another level.. which is why everything in SC seems better cause the players near the
top or even the elite newbs.. still manage it very close to perfect ...
and because of the mass ammounts of things in ta.. its very hard to do it near perfect.. while "microing"
attacks all over not just in a few spots.. on more of the maps they happen in tonsa spots.. since
there is no built in choke points .... i hope i made sense.. im kinda tired just woke up

"If none of that makes any sense, just ignore it, I need so much sleep it's not even funny."
thats so flouring funny i didnt even read that part yet hahahahaha omg :\
this is lame COPY CAT!!


rouge3:
"*me can only wonder where these SC'ers came from and what they are doing on
a TA fansite besides startin' all kinds of crap.* "
this is a crap starting board .. live with it stop being like prez

prez:
"I think of some guy sitting in front of a bunch of people dueling
someone else for money, not just for the fun of the game."

lemme think.. would you not have more fun playing the game you like best.. for money?
basketball kids.. wanna be in the nba.. 1 cause they are the best.. 2 cause they make money
no nba player would say i hate the money o_O and it does add to it... pfft
not to mention the players on here talking dont make mass money
and if they do.. they better play with me

----
i dont think people have to play things to know what its about, but i do think they need to
play to know the intensity that is possible, along with quickness of game.
and they need better informants like me
----

Radium:
"TA pretty fast because it is so much more dynamic, complex and fast-paced than SC,"

its more complex i believe cause of the vast number of things that can go on
but after the 5 minute mark in SC i beleive they are very close in a speed sense
but it is possible to have the speed come to a hault in SC if you run outa recourses that is and
have no where to move your units.. but thats only for a few seconds while your drones get enough to
make a few units then back to the clicking

quoting 2 quotes:
"And Micro is so much better than macro,
I think PK covered this one... what's so intelligent about
"may the man with the best mouse and most twitchy finger win"?"

in both games micro is just as important when you come to the top.. in any game
with a unit to be controlled in real time its important..
and the fact of the matter is.. the faster your hands are able to do things correctly in
alignment with what SHOULD BE DONE.. that means the faster you will be at deciphering what
thing to do next .. and be able to do it as well..
so the man with the best stuff in that sense is very likely to win

imagine a super elite general from
the pentagon.. comes and plays.. because he is mad crazy with strats.. no matter in ta
or SC or any war game that requires you to click to get things done and move around..
he will lose if he has no hands and no mouse.. and is slow...
anyways i already went over that you must micro at higher levels of play ..

BG!

"To turn that statement around to the was I think about RTS: At leat with
TA you require intelligent thought to build an economy, expand and claim territory,
decide on your strategy and what tactics you are going to use to implement that strategy.
You need to think spatially, plan ahead, find your opponents weak points and so on. "

you require that in any rts game ..... whats your point?

"You show me a description of a strategy or decription of a SC game that
isn't "he used this unit so I used that unit, then he swtiched to this unit
so i went to that unit""

ok.. my strat is to kill his economy.. and then get an expansion.. this is for SC by the way
now im tos and the least required fastest way to kill eco in my opinon is to use a templar..
1st off im gonna have to distract him.. so i get UNITS.. haha dont care what kind.. and i make 15 or so
and go mess with his expansion .. and have my drop ship and temps waiting near his base.. and at that
moment that i attack
and i see him react
i press 2..2 and i am in .005 seconds selected on my drop ship i tell it to drop behind his line
press 1..1 and micro the battle that is going on.. press 3..3 when i hear the drop and press t and
storm.. then i selcect the drop ship with temp and fly away and press 1..1 all in .2 seconds and
then i retreat with my attack saving most of it and taking some of his units out
durring the 10 second fight knowing he has lost half his units and he has a slow economy for a while
i decide to expand knowing i can defend .. since i have protection on my lines
i then decide to change my strat.. cause he will obviouly protect that now.. so it now becomes
i want to totaly kill his expansion instead.. so i decide since he is tos as well he has strong flour
and id like to weaken it as i attack so i bring some temps with me.. and storm all his crap while i attack at the same time
blah blah...

in ta i would give the same story different units.. why is it so hard to understand how simalar
the 2 are.. besides what units there are? o_O

neverborn:
"How much different will a game of TA be if your first construction vehicle
out decided to mex instead of solar?"

if someone makes solar.. on a solar map.. after they make a con.. with that con.. instead of mex
and players are = you lose.. because of that much .. id consider 120 metal + time metal woulda been made
giving metal.. about 200 metal.. and thats 2 units as we went over b4.. thats the game if people
are good enough o_O

Prez:
"I must hand it to you SC geniuses, linking to this forum was sheer brilliance.
Were you around the last time there was a flame war between the SC and TA camp?"

and basically what you are doing in 90% of your post is being dumb ..

rouge3:
"We have our game and you have yours. Whats da problem?

Da problem is you. This isn't yer place. Go whence you came. "

da problem is if you dont care for thier speeches.. then maybe you shouldnt read it
now go newb ta'ers


Neverborn:
"I'll say it one more time: TA is far superior to BGH style SC. Happy?
Sad thing is the only people that play BGH are "mass noobs.""

well same goes for ta reg maps SC style .....
ta is possibly as good if not better cause of the more options
but the problem is.. its just mass newbs
damn i crack myself up .. and im psycho go figure
-------
cool page 3
-----

Devius:
"For me the is no point in playing the game if you're playing rushers,
because it is just easy to make your own 'rush force' and meet a deadlock. "

if i had time id let you play me 1000 games and we would never meet at a deadlock
and id rush every single game..
you can not tech up with ta and make it worth it on 90% of maps .. fast tech that is.. late tech is
fine but that is rare in itself unless the map is 10x bigger than any SC map
or if its a specific tech needed map

SCer:
"This last post I wrote because so many of you seem to think micro means only
clicking really fast and entirely miss the whole point of micro, to manuever
and exploit your units in the best way their abilities allow.
Any thoughts?"

yah.. good ta players do that .. you move stumpys in the line of fire of opposing flashes.. find
places for your missle units to shoot from where they wont hit wreks.. while making sure your own flashes
are shooting at other flashes.. finding hiding spots behind other wreks.. so that the flash
shooting yours doesnt get hit and you hit a flash that is shooting at another of yours
that is not getting hit.. ect.. with 50 units at once.. and no you dont select them all
unless yer a newb...
did that come out clear? :\
ps: ta lacks spell type things :\
but con units .. could be considered having nano shield spells ...


devius:
"Where as in SC you have to tell your units to fire each time
(from a distance), they won't go and hunt the enemy down like you
can tell the units in TA.... Fast clicking and knowing hotkeys is not skill."

you dont have to tell your units to fire each time.. you have to tell them to get in range
to fire.. same with any game, and why do you want something to hunt something down? neways.. ta only hunts
if you tell them to hunt.. sc units will hunt if you want them to.. but if you hunt they are likely
to retreat into backup.. and ruin your so called hunt.. thats not so cool is it?

and of course skill is not hotkeys and clicking but.. knowing what to do in combination
with clicking.. and you cant deny it.. we dont use mental connections with computers.. so
of course we click.. DER

rouge3:
"And Grumble just said what were all thinking. "

no he didnt..

Nathan:
"then there is the fact that not all SC units take up one unit slot-
the battlecruiser takes 8, as does the carrier, and there is a max unit capacity of 200.
in TA each unit takes up one unit slot, and with a simple patch you can have 500 units-
this is decreased by the fact that buildings take up units slots, too, but you can still
have many more units."

this was previously discussed.. and you are showing the true point again.. things take upmore than
one slot in SC to even the sides out.. you know full well 100 goliaths will totaly own 100 bulldogs.
so shoulndt you only be able to make 60 so its more even?
understand now?

"there are absolutely no long range units in SC, so you can't shell
enemy bases while preparing for an attack. in TA, whole campaigns can
take to water with resource gathering structeres for the water- in SC
all resource gathering is ground-based."

there is no SC navy so thats irrelevant

" b) since it is supposed to be futuristic, use radar stations to determine
the exact location of the unit, get a lock, and get a SAM out. not having radar
or any long-range detection facilities (w/the exception of a comsat station) is
just stupid with such a futuristic game- radar has been around since before WW2."

they are trying to make it even.. and make it hard to know what people are doing
or want to do .. so you have to scout.. nothing wrong with that.. people have radar jammers
as well as radar you know?.... and not to mention they have metal tusk dead elephants
this isnt real lol

Doggy:
Nice post
"Yes, the does happen, especially on big (metal) maps. Only n00bs play them normally though."

that doenst happen on metal maps.. :\ and um.. the only reason mass units die.. is cause
there are mass units .. but not for no reason... still whoever has best position wins and such
and better things at front.. and i like metal maps im a newb? sigh

Switeck:
nice post
but that krog sumo matchup.. was just not a good example

the SC'ers are talking about killing more with less.. not more with MORE just packed into less..

"Nobody has ever mastered TA."

i resent that!
ego alert ego ego alert

SCer:
Nice post
"but how can you concentrate on a small band of units when you've got hundreds to manage?"
um BE FAST lmao
btw nukes are usually meant to kill non mobile things in ta.. they kill anything cept 3 units..
commander krogoth and sumo, with that much said.. things in ta that arent mobile.. cost a heck of alot more
than mobile ones.. imagine its not a huge map.. and so a few of your good things get killed..
thats most likely.. around 10k metal that you just lost.. while they lost around 3.5 k for the total nuke
they prolly nuked fusions and such so you lose the metal income or whatever they where doing for that time
AS well.. the build time of ta things is very hurendous as well..
i know sc nukes are cheap but they are so much easier to counter..
so if you let one slip through.. thats yer total mess up ... so its not a good point
but yeh.. it hurts in sc if you let it happen as well..

and ill have you know.. unless i feel im not gonna lose even 1% .. i manage all my flour all over the map
and if i cant manage it at that moment.. its not fighting... for more than a few seconds while
i use a few cons

"in TA you have your big armies and almost inexistent micro and a big
emphasis on macro, while in SC you don't get as many units but there is more
emphasis on how you use these units."

as barbar stated b4 you always have the choice not to micro.. newbs dont.. easy as that..
cant say thats an emphasize in a game..

Jinksy:
Nice post ,specially the part about moderaters

yay!! im done!! i get to post!! haha tonsa pages

------------------
[The]-[Pic]├é┬®├é┬«├óÔÇ×┬ó

[Sabutai]

TL;DR all of it.


But NO. TA may seem to be less micro intensive when you send 150 units to the enemy. Don't get macro mixed up with mirco. The army will fare far worse if you divert your attention.
SC is like chess. TA is more of a battlespace-simulationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlespace


The fact is that there are different micro aspects concerning SC and TA:

- SC has the "spells" (researching them is not micro)
- unitdefinitions make it paper rocks sizzor
- the capped teamsizes (its not a feature)

- Ta has fewer "spells" (energyshots/cloaking-decloaking)
- TA has the terrain and its modifiers (blocking sight or movement /kbots can climb, vehicles cant)
- LOS (shoot at radar dots)
- weapons dont autohit (dodge shots/damage what they hit)
- plasma and rockets get shot in arcs (shoot over a hill)
- weapons unravel
- trees n stuff block shots
- move and shoot
- experience (berthas show this drastically)

- spring adds to that the attackangle, you damage more if you move to the back of a unit
- deformable terrain

TA battles get into brawls because some people prefer the closerange maximum accuracy. Microing units to kite is more rewarding. You have to keep them moving dynamically at all times.

[BlueTemplar]

Starcraft is not really paper-rock-scissors, the majority of units is effective against any other unit.
Compare for instance with Command and Conquer 3 where anti-infantry units deal practically no damage against vehicles (making these kinds of units almost worthless imho).

[BaNa]

I know this thread wasnt originally about this, but having read most of pics post i feel the need to respond:

I agree with that long post guy, TA and derivatives may have more depth but SC has waaaay better player material. There was an interesting comment on how SC is more varied at start, I can agree with that, viable *A starting builds are much more alike than SC's starts. This, more spellcasting units and truly different sides may give SC a bigger apparent depth, especially for beginners.You could also argue that TA's exponential econ + no unit cap makes it much harder to do a successful comeback than SC.

I dunno, reading those things just made me want to play SC more :)

[Lolsquad_Steven]

I meant ta sping when i said ta, i don't play ota, i know nothing about ota, i was talking about tas and starcraft. I've played both alot, i still like to play both alot, not so much starcraft in the past few years because of lack of time but tas i still play a fair bit. You can't even compare micro in tas to starcraft, and this argument started out to be about unit control, stick to the subject.

[smoth]

you guys make my balls hurt.

[zwzsg]

stick to the subject.

We weren't talking about the fucking game you fucking idiot.

[Lolsquad_Steven]

[BaNa]

I meant ta sping when i said ta, i don't play ota, i know nothing about ota, i was talking about tas and starcraft. I've played both alot, i still like to play both alot, not so much starcraft in the past few years because of lack of time but tas i still play a fair bit. You can't even compare micro in tas to starcraft, and this argument started out to be about unit control, stick to the subject.

didnt even use the word micro in my post...

[hunterw]

SC has a lot more diversity in its builds and sides, but it also has a lot more repetitive and irritating micro. can't queue shit = the gay.

[Sabutai]

a zerg attacks my terran units, to be able to answer back i'd have to stim all my marines, kill as many lurkers as possible defend my science vessels, move my tanks back, seige them where lurkers can't get to them and then when the lurkers burrow move my marines back.

this sounds like paper rock sizzors

here was an interesting comment on how SC is more varied at start, I can agree with that, viable *A starting builds are much more alike than SC's starts.

if you play dsd all day long... play some kbot or sea maps... hell there are even hovers or amphibs. and what about comdropping? have you ever seen people reclaim their labs after a few minutes and build another? just lol at the less varied start than sc argument...

spring and even ota interface is more streamlined than sc. nowadays you even get tiny widgets to help you. take the mex widget: you need two click to mex a whole area instead of 1 click plus every mex you want to set. that can save a lot of time. or the draw formation order which in fact relieves you of some microing. theres even the autoskirmisher... nice tool but not as effective as controling your units directly. optimum would be to control each unit seperatly.

now how many guys play SC 18 hours a day and how many play spring? if we had a playerbase like SC youd face hundreds of guys raping with jeffies... i remember when we started to use them frequently in BA. they were nerfed. they got too valuable through microing. nowadays you build them throught the game on comet.

[BaNa]

here was an interesting comment on how SC is more varied at start, I can agree with that, viable *A starting builds are much more alike than SC's starts.

if you play dsd all day long... play some kbot or sea maps... hell there are even hovers or amphibs. and what about comdropping? have you ever seen people reclaim their labs after a few minutes and build another? just lol at the less varied start than sc argument...

I've played a lot of different type of maps and I like to play 1v1 too (well when I played regularly I did). I stand by what I said. Note I said starts. The gameplay may get more varied as time passes but imo in most games a fairly limited starting build is the optimal one. This may vary with the map, but on a vech-friendly map you will overwhelmingly see very similar vech starts. On a kbot map, same thing with kbots. Comdrops are rare in the 1v1s I've played, especially start of game ones, because it is a very big risk (airlab start).

[Sabutai]

This may vary with the map, but on a vech-friendly map you will overwhelmingly see very similar vech starts. On a kbot map, same thing with kbots.

Its a map and a balancing issue. NOTA for instance forces you to build kbots. On a "vehicle map". We need more mixed maps.

[Lolsquad_Steven]

a zerg attacks my terran units, to be able to answer back i'd have to stim all my marines, kill as many lurkers as possible defend my science vessels, move my tanks back, seige them where lurkers can't get to them and then when the lurkers burrow move my marines back.

this sounds like paper rock sizzors

In ta you just move your units back.

[Sabutai]

I count

1

stim all my marines

2

kill as many lurkers as possible

3

defend my science vessels

4

move my tanks back, seige them

different units with different roles. Rockos vs rockos might result injust falling back. Substitute marines for peewees, lurkers for reapers, science vessels for spies and tanks for snipers. Now you self d your spy, swarm with the peewees and keept your snipers out of trouble.

[Lolsquad_Steven]

I guess you have to play play starcraft to appreciate it.

[hunterw]

different units with different roles. Rockos vs rockos might result injust falling back. Substitute marines for peewees, lurkers for reapers, science vessels for spies and tanks for snipers. Now you self d your spy, swarm with the peewees and keept your snipers out of trouble.

you are silly, pro ba games dont get to t2 often

still, theres a reason that a handful of people can rape anyone on earth at 1v1 BA, and thats because its incredibly skill / APM based.