I am sure that this is done to death already, but I can't thrawl through the forum to find it...
I am trying to convince one of my friends to play more Spring as opposed to Supreme Commander FA. His arguments are that SC:FA is more polished game, it plays a lot smoothly than Spring, zoom in and out is seamless, etc... We play a lot through LAN or direct ip, so gpgnet and it's instability is not issue in our argument, nor are ours PC's, as both are more than competent to deal with SC.
What do you think, is Spring that much better game than SC:FA? How can I convince my friend to play more Spring? Where is Spring better than SC:FA?
Spring TA vs SupComm
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adin_panther
- Posts: 164
- Joined: 06 Jan 2009, 14:14
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
Spring is free. 'nuff said.
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
Does supcom keep getting new gameplay features, new way for units to work, with the amount Spring does? Even TA manages to get new features from time to time, god knows how.
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Pressure Line
- Posts: 2283
- Joined: 21 May 2007, 02:09
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
what is 'Spring TA'?
i know of Spring, and TA. but not of a single entity that is 'Spring TA' (or its counterpart, 'TA Spring')
dont try to 'entice' him with "omg its TA in 3d" because Spring is capable of SO much MORE than that. if all your friend cares about is how 'polished' Supcom is, let him play supcom, because tbfh there is more to a game than "omg its making love to my retinas" (i should make a list of some of the visually stunning [for their time] games from the early 00's that had gameplay that made you want to pull out your own fingernails, but im not going to, because its hot, and im feeling lazy.)
ps: Spring:1944, Gundam, PURE (as much as everyone loves to hate it, its an option), Kernel Panic. all not TA, and all excellent in their own way.
enjoy.
i know of Spring, and TA. but not of a single entity that is 'Spring TA' (or its counterpart, 'TA Spring')
dont try to 'entice' him with "omg its TA in 3d" because Spring is capable of SO much MORE than that. if all your friend cares about is how 'polished' Supcom is, let him play supcom, because tbfh there is more to a game than "omg its making love to my retinas" (i should make a list of some of the visually stunning [for their time] games from the early 00's that had gameplay that made you want to pull out your own fingernails, but im not going to, because its hot, and im feeling lazy.)
ps: Spring:1944, Gundam, PURE (as much as everyone loves to hate it, its an option), Kernel Panic. all not TA, and all excellent in their own way.
enjoy.
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
As soon as I saw the thread title I figured someone would be typing a lecture on "It's not TA" within 5 posts.
Here's my incredibly convincing arguement: SupCom sucks, Spring doesn't.
Here's my incredibly convincing arguement: SupCom sucks, Spring doesn't.
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
Let's be honest with ourselves - I mean, I love Spring games, but Spring is buggier than an anthill. Can't say I blame a guy for wanting to play Supcom.
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
Hi,
mhh .. i like spring - more than SC .. but take the facts ->
Pro Spring:
More than one Game in One engine - TA styles - EE [earth styles] - EvolutionRTS -
Pure - S44 - this is really nice.But this is the only positive point over SC ..
Negative:
Instable on various configs
GFX erros in various ways on various cards
NO load/save - you MUSST have enough play time
A horribly widget config system, only usefull if you play only one mod
The overall config system is far away from ready for different mods - so here the
same problem - only usefull if you play only one mod
the AI system is [if the AI need an config] a mess too - you musst readjust
the configs everey new mod version
The starting need a understanding of the client/engine system.Not "one" prg
that is to start.
For multiplayer you MUSST connect to an masterserver.
So at the end ->
If you a user with only average PC knowing then you have problems to get on track
with the evolving from spring and various mods.
Maybe any time it is ready for the end user .....
[and SC is for "free" too - if you ready to play spring you know P2P .....
So the "free" point is useless]
Regards
R-TEAM
mhh .. i like spring - more than SC .. but take the facts ->
Pro Spring:
More than one Game in One engine - TA styles - EE [earth styles] - EvolutionRTS -
Pure - S44 - this is really nice.But this is the only positive point over SC ..
Negative:
Instable on various configs
GFX erros in various ways on various cards
NO load/save - you MUSST have enough play time
A horribly widget config system, only usefull if you play only one mod
The overall config system is far away from ready for different mods - so here the
same problem - only usefull if you play only one mod
the AI system is [if the AI need an config] a mess too - you musst readjust
the configs everey new mod version
The starting need a understanding of the client/engine system.Not "one" prg
that is to start.
For multiplayer you MUSST connect to an masterserver.
So at the end ->
If you a user with only average PC knowing then you have problems to get on track
with the evolving from spring and various mods.
Maybe any time it is ready for the end user .....
[and SC is for "free" too - if you ready to play spring you know P2P .....
So the "free" point is useless]
Regards
R-TEAM
Last edited by R-TEAM on 07 Mar 2009, 04:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Pressure Line
- Posts: 2283
- Joined: 21 May 2007, 02:09
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
ralphie: i was making the point that if all his friend cares about is the 'polish' of the game (although ive never experienced the lack of smoothness he mentions) then he is unlikely to convince him based on the strength of "omg TA in 3d!" because nothing that uses directly ported content from a game released more than 11 years ago [im just gonna go right ahead and assume he is playing BA/XTA] is going to compare visually to a commercial game released in the past 4 years
tbh datomas, you're probably beating a dead horse trying to convince him that Spring is better. each game has its merits and flaws, better just to say "dude, im fucking bored of SC [because thats what it sounds like to me], lets play a couple of rounds of BA/EE/Gundam/S44/KP/whatever." remember its all down to personal preference. there is no way to force a person to agree with your point of view (well, ok, thats not strictly true... but its not really socially acceptable)
tbh datomas, you're probably beating a dead horse trying to convince him that Spring is better. each game has its merits and flaws, better just to say "dude, im fucking bored of SC [because thats what it sounds like to me], lets play a couple of rounds of BA/EE/Gundam/S44/KP/whatever." remember its all down to personal preference. there is no way to force a person to agree with your point of view (well, ok, thats not strictly true... but its not really socially acceptable)
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Pressure Line
- Posts: 2283
- Joined: 21 May 2007, 02:09
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
double post!
R-Team: spring is only hard to install if you have trouble getting dressed on your own. in 4 years, i have not had any problems installing, configuring or playing any spring mod (other than mod errors with version changes, which happens)
you dont HAVE to connect to the main server. you can easily create a local server for yourself, or join some other server, provided you know the address.
and Linux users whinging about setup difficulties... well... you know when you install linux that you may have difficulties using some software. thats the price you pay.
R-Team: spring is only hard to install if you have trouble getting dressed on your own. in 4 years, i have not had any problems installing, configuring or playing any spring mod (other than mod errors with version changes, which happens)
you dont HAVE to connect to the main server. you can easily create a local server for yourself, or join some other server, provided you know the address.
and Linux users whinging about setup difficulties... well... you know when you install linux that you may have difficulties using some software. thats the price you pay.
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
Supcom's graphics and interface are beautiful, along with many other pros, such as it's many different units, it's unique waypointing system, and other innovative features that have made it a very popular game.
just one problem...
THE SUPCOM AI COMBOMBS YOU IF ITS LOSING, AND NUKES ITSELF IF IT'S WINNING
no kidding. personal experience.
also, theres some random weapon all the factions have that annihilates all countermeasures in the game in one hit, and it's not even experimental tier.
Balance is an iterative process. A one-time release game like supcom doesn't have the finely tuned gameplay Spring games tend to have.
Horrible balance issues aside, you won't find a community as, err, unique as Spring's community, nor will you find an rts engine with as much easy versatility.
My bets on spring
just one problem...
THE SUPCOM AI COMBOMBS YOU IF ITS LOSING, AND NUKES ITSELF IF IT'S WINNING
no kidding. personal experience.
also, theres some random weapon all the factions have that annihilates all countermeasures in the game in one hit, and it's not even experimental tier.
Balance is an iterative process. A one-time release game like supcom doesn't have the finely tuned gameplay Spring games tend to have.
Horrible balance issues aside, you won't find a community as, err, unique as Spring's community, nor will you find an rts engine with as much easy versatility.
My bets on spring
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
Well, thank you all four your input, I was scared that this will go in flamewars, but didn't go that way.
We play TA mods only, XTA, BA or NOTA, we were addicted to TA back in the day. And, his point is, and as big fan I am of Spring, I must concur, SC:FA looks a lot better than Spring, and it plays too, on my and his machine (simillar setups, E6600 and 8800 GTS and GT cards, so it's not weak machine). My only argument is that we both love TA and we look to recreate that unique experience of playing it.
We play TA mods only, XTA, BA or NOTA, we were addicted to TA back in the day. And, his point is, and as big fan I am of Spring, I must concur, SC:FA looks a lot better than Spring, and it plays too, on my and his machine (simillar setups, E6600 and 8800 GTS and GT cards, so it's not weak machine). My only argument is that we both love TA and we look to recreate that unique experience of playing it.
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Auswaschbar
- Spring Developer
- Posts: 1254
- Joined: 24 Jun 2007, 08:34
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreedomR-TEAM wrote:[and SC is for "free" too - if you ready to play spring you know P2P .....
So the "free" point is useless]
You can add new features to spring. Try that with supcom.
Spring runs on windows, linux and on mac OS X.
Spring has PlanetWars
Spring gets improved on a regular basis
Oh, and spring has an incredible nice and friendly community.
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
I tried supcom demo, I didn't really like it. The zoom annoys me, it does that stupid tilt when you zoom in, why the hell do you need that, apart from it allows you to take cool screenshots of the units and stick on the back of the box as actual gameplay footage.
HUD is too large and fancy, minimap is too small (even in 1600x1200).
Spring/BA and it's barebones UI has tainted me
HUD is too large and fancy, minimap is too small (even in 1600x1200).
Spring/BA and it's barebones UI has tainted me
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SirArtturi
- Posts: 1164
- Joined: 23 Jan 2008, 18:29
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
Spring vs Supcom = 10 - 0
Thats my personal opinion and I'm not even going to be objective...
To be more exact, Spring is much polished than SC, its enginebased gameplay is better and more accurate. Mod's offer more strategical and tactical choices. Overall the spring-based mods are more skillful and challenging than SC's.
I don't understand that zoom-in zoom-out argument. Imo spring has better camera options and zoom features. In SC zoom is more "leveled"
Negative sides of Spring surely are unfriendly user environment. Gamelobby's with many buttons and options can sometimes be pretty scary for new players and the lack of proper singleplayer set-ups won't help it.
Some bugs may occur, but only during updates. After that they are usually fixed. More over others, Spring graphical side is not today... Well SC's aint either and Imo it never has been really pretty. However SC has better looking effects and UI's. Spring's UI's are quite ugly imo, and what comes to BA, it's textures are so yesterday...
edit: Btw I noticed that XTA has now pretty good looking effects, So It's not that the situation couldn't be changed...
Thats my personal opinion and I'm not even going to be objective...
To be more exact, Spring is much polished than SC, its enginebased gameplay is better and more accurate. Mod's offer more strategical and tactical choices. Overall the spring-based mods are more skillful and challenging than SC's.
I don't understand that zoom-in zoom-out argument. Imo spring has better camera options and zoom features. In SC zoom is more "leveled"
Negative sides of Spring surely are unfriendly user environment. Gamelobby's with many buttons and options can sometimes be pretty scary for new players and the lack of proper singleplayer set-ups won't help it.
Some bugs may occur, but only during updates. After that they are usually fixed. More over others, Spring graphical side is not today... Well SC's aint either and Imo it never has been really pretty. However SC has better looking effects and UI's. Spring's UI's are quite ugly imo, and what comes to BA, it's textures are so yesterday...
edit: Btw I noticed that XTA has now pretty good looking effects, So It's not that the situation couldn't be changed...
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
SupCom and the ta mods on spring are so different.
SupCom is dumbed down...
Supcom has 4 factions but much less actual variety in terms of gameplay.
SupCom's Micro is boring as hell and is usually neglected for macro.
Unbelievable Spring has better support than Supcom and that's from my personal experience.
Also GPG Do not care about the game...they just left it with its fail balance and bugs in favor of their next project.
Spring works on mac windows and linux.
don't supcom and supcom FA have a set delay for multiplayer of about half a second?
I dot not enjoy playing with 500 ping all the time.
Modding is not well supported by GPG lobby.
GFX in supcom fa,including the UI is better,but most of the time you play with icons.
Ill mention the micro again since its really a major point.
Radars see through mountains,units move through wrecks and sometimes one through the other.
The UI commands are very limited and u cant easily add widget for it and still play ranked games.
This all might be personal preference but i enjoy playing and actually seeing my units and not icons..
the camera in supcom is IMO better than in spring but it is only needed cause you have to zoom out completely so much.
SupCom is dumbed down...
Supcom has 4 factions but much less actual variety in terms of gameplay.
SupCom's Micro is boring as hell and is usually neglected for macro.
Unbelievable Spring has better support than Supcom and that's from my personal experience.
Also GPG Do not care about the game...they just left it with its fail balance and bugs in favor of their next project.
Spring works on mac windows and linux.
don't supcom and supcom FA have a set delay for multiplayer of about half a second?
I dot not enjoy playing with 500 ping all the time.
Modding is not well supported by GPG lobby.
GFX in supcom fa,including the UI is better,but most of the time you play with icons.
Ill mention the micro again since its really a major point.
Radars see through mountains,units move through wrecks and sometimes one through the other.
The UI commands are very limited and u cant easily add widget for it and still play ranked games.
This all might be personal preference but i enjoy playing and actually seeing my units and not icons..
the camera in supcom is IMO better than in spring but it is only needed cause you have to zoom out completely so much.
Last edited by Gota on 07 Mar 2009, 13:49, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
Come one - you know what i mean - if you need SC you can get it forAuswaschbar wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreedomR-TEAM wrote:[and SC is for "free" too - if you ready to play spring you know P2P .....
So the "free" point is useless]
nothing too - only download time.So the "Big" point -spring is free- dont
interesst any ... and dont come with law and bla-bla -> see TA content in spring.
Yes - this is an good point , that spring mods and the engine is still in developmentAuswaschbar wrote: You can add new features to spring. Try that with supcom.
Spring runs on windows, linux and on mac OS X.
Spring has PlanetWars
Spring gets improved on a regular basis
Oh, and spring has an incredible nice and friendly community.
and so come new feutures .. and planet wars is nice too (dont know much ATM from it but -> it is possibe to have this at Home in my LAN too ? ) and the community helps nice (most time).
But this dont make the basic problems go away magical ...!!!
The engine have problems with the OpenGL gfx - and dont come with "go to a older gfx-driver version" nonsens ..
The missed load/save feuture is a mess by bigger maps.Tha major
problem that i played spring only very rarely :/
The global config (one config for all mods - if i play one time CA and next S44 i musst reconfig much widgets and this is realy NOT end-user friendly) and the silly AI-config (every new CA or BA version i musst rename the config files,from the basic problems to get an AI with config files running for an end-user i say nothing ...) get the spring gameplay very bad ...
If i play only one mod and only in multiplayer then this count not much,
but then i can play SC and have much more player and a bigger userbase.
So the big advantage from spring (various mods, partly extreme different and evolving) is his biggest problem too.
Regards
R-TEAM
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
i played lot of ta and only supcom demo :
ta supcom
camera 8.0 0.7
map 0.9 0.4
design 0.3 0.5
gameplay 0.9 0.5
unit count 5000 ?300?
map size 64 ?32?
texture 0.7 1.2
animation 0.6 1.3
Ai 0.7 0.5
sfx 0.9 1.1
interface 0.8 0.5
= 5080 ? 350 ?
major feature to supcom for :
eta move + maintain formation :
enabling coordinated battle
major feature to spring for :
fps view & soft ground & corpses
: enabling infiltration & interdiction & recycling
look for major issue with fps view for the rts"machines"
ta supcom
camera 8.0 0.7
map 0.9 0.4
design 0.3 0.5
gameplay 0.9 0.5
unit count 5000 ?300?
map size 64 ?32?
texture 0.7 1.2
animation 0.6 1.3
Ai 0.7 0.5
sfx 0.9 1.1
interface 0.8 0.5
= 5080 ? 350 ?
major feature to supcom for :
eta move + maintain formation :
enabling coordinated battle
major feature to spring for :
fps view & soft ground & corpses
: enabling infiltration & interdiction & recycling
look for major issue with fps view for the rts"machines"
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
You can get supcom for free but you cant play online..
Re: Spring TA vs SupComm
not online or offline after trying the demo that i rated previously 110to15* lower than a 0£ online springGota wrote:You can get supcom for free but you cant play online..
is supcom featuring 16players in two team ???