Help me, Obi-wan. You are my only hope

[casperjeff]

I play a weekly game of BA with my buddies and I really suck. I HATE resource management in general and am not very good at it (usually get stalled on metal) . My buddies all tend to porch and build giant mechs and crush me...laughingly.....while I strategically build, deploy and attach with many level 1/2 units.....

We may start eliminating level 3 units but still, I need to get better.

Anyone want to do some one-on-one tutorials with me to raise my game up? I'm SURE there are plenty of tid-bits about certain units and specialty things that I just don't know that would help...in addition to basic resource management skills.

[REVENGE]

I'm not sure anyone around here is keen on giving tutoring sessions to anyone...unless they get paid, which would just be absurd. Anyways, why not watch some replays? You can gain a very good understanding of how economics and macro management works. Watch 1v1 for micromanagement strategies. Then, try to mimic what you observe, and you'll get the hang of it.

[smoth]

replay do help a lot. Learn to que commands, use transports to drop crawling bombs on their fusions blah blah... replays..

[manored]

Being stalling metal is common, if you arent stalling you havent got enough builders :) Your concern should be in how much metal you are producing.

If you dont like resource management you should give a look at CA, in CA there are no different tech levels in economy so its a lot simpler, you also dont need metal makers as instead excess energy is used to make your extractors extract faster automatically...

Last time I checked crawling bombs couldnt be transported in both BA and CA... I might be outdated tough :)

[the-middleman]

I sometimes do training games with noobs but I only play CA atm. However here are a few thoughts from me.

- Like the others mentioned: Watching replays of your games isnt just usefull but EXTREMELY usefull. I think you learn more from reviews than from playing the game. I replay ALL my games if I can find the time.

- If your enemies porch and then beat you with T3 youre doing something wrong. It´s probably not just the economy. T1 and T2 should overcome all defenses and eliminate the enemy before he can build T3. Remember that there is a counter-unit for every defense.

- Never idle. Allways check for idle units. Allways think of how you could improve your current situation. Build repair reclaim allways everywhere everything as fast as you can.

- Radar and scouts. Even if you have less resources and less units than the enemy you can still beat him as long as you know what he is doing. I tend to build many radar towers everywhere. Theyre cheap and you cant have too many. The best defenseline is useless if you dont know when and where the enemy is coming from.
Scount planes are also super cheap and usefull. If after 15 minutes of game youre still alive and the enemy is "too quiet" you know he is cooking something up. Build 15 scout planes and send them straight into his base. Once you know what he is up too you can react. There is nothing better then airstriking a allmost finished nuke or T3 unit.

[Pxtl]

@casperjeff - BA is heavily focussed on level 1 action and offense. Porcing and teching to T3 is just about the polar opposite of how the game is designed to go. FFA mitigates this a bit, since you're afraid of attacking and letting a 3rd-party take the resource lead, but still.

Here's the most basic suggestion - stop thinking about complex strategies or whatnot. Pick an enemy. Build a homogeneous force fscktonne of L1 tanks (flash/gator if early game, raiders/stumpies if mid-game), probe for a weak spot in his porc with a handful of units... a lot of players don't build close enough to the map-edge for example.

Then assault the dude in one tight, fast moving force. Don't stop for the defenses, but keep brawling right on through and feast upon the gooey resources inside. Once his energy supply is toast his defenses will be harmless and easy to break down. Then bring in the resurrection forces.

What maps do you boys play on?

[casperjeff]

Thanks for the tips....
Couple of questions then:....

useless units?

I tried minelayers a couple of times and could have sworn the bot I was playing could 'see' the minefields and 'attacked' them (blowing them up).
Fast assist/repair bot...do I have to actually give it any orders or will it work autonomously?
Crawling bomb....uhhhh....send them out by themselves and they get picked off at distances by laser turrets. Send fodder with them?
WTF are Mobile Anti-missle defense units?
Radar Invisible Spy kbot.....is this just an invisible unit I can use to probe/map out my enemies territories? Is it really invisible?
What mobile units use 'energy' for their weapons/activities? Radar units? Invisible units? Plasma units?

Are transports a widely used strategic tool?

Any of the level 3 units I should avoid building?
Any tips for defending against giant CORE mechs? ( I should have had a tac nuke handy to lay on them as they came near my base...will a single nuke take out a Krogoth?

[smoth]

also if this is a 1 v 1 v 1, then it is bollocks and the first guy to attack loses unless he takes out the target and completely utilizes the metal and resources of the fallen start point.

Remember this:
assuming an equal playing field..

If I have 1 tank
you have 1 tank
third guy has 1 tank

You attack me, third guy will not only have one tank, his mouse clicks and keyboard presses are being used to expand so he actually might get up to two tanks while you and I are engaged in conflict.

[Pxtl]

Thanks for the tips....
Couple of questions then:....

useless units?

I tried minelayers a couple of times and could have sworn the bot I was playing could 'see' the minefields and 'attacked' them (blowing them up).
Fast assist/repair bot...do I have to actually give it any orders or will it work autonomously?
Crawling bomb....uhhhh....send them out by themselves and they get picked off at distances by laser turrets. Send fodder with them?
WTF are Mobile Anti-missle defense units?
Radar Invisible Spy kbot.....is this just an invisible unit I can use to probe/map out my enemies territories? Is it really invisible?
What mobile units use 'energy' for their weapons/activities? Radar units? Invisible units? Plasma units?

Are transports a widely used strategic tool?

Any of the level 3 units I should avoid building?
Any tips for defending against giant CORE mechs? ( I should have had a tac nuke handy to lay on them as they came near my base...will a single nuke take out a Krogoth?

Overthinking things. Every BA is useful... but only in 1% of games. So you can safely ignore all the rarely used ones like minelayers and crawling bombs. 99% of BA gameplay is the tanks.

Mobile anti is an anti-nuke. When you start playing against pros who pick off your anti nukes, use those.

And the best tactic against giant core mechs? Anything. They're not godly - they cost so much you could field a tonne of gunships or conventional tanks to bring them down just as well - for example, only the Karganeth has good anti-air - but the death-explosion of a full Krogoth will take out whatever killed it. Annihilator weapons and snipers do extra damage to them, though.

Spy unit is 100% invisible (when cloaked) unless a unit gets up to point-blank range or flies over it, which will break the cloak. It also has a powerful stunning self-destruct, so they're useful for an assisted kamikaze.

FARKs need orders... but in a pinch, just put it on patrol through your base and it will do intelligent things. Patrols are good.

You can do a lot of ninjitsu with transports... but at your level they're not really worth it.

Stick to the tanks, starting with the smallest jeffy/weasel scouts at the very beginning of the game and moving through the bigger tanks (flash, then stumpy, then bulldog) as the game progresses. Use the SAM trucks for sight, anti-air, and ranged-fire support. Most important defenses are radars, LLTs, and jammers, and Pitbulls at L2. Larger defenses are for pros.

Don't be afraid to diversify into the other L1 factories once the game approaches L2. L1 Air units are very useful, as are L1 construction Kbots and resurrectors.

Now, the real problem is that you're playing FFA, and tanks are a risky attack in those games. You have to make enough of them to make the attack cripplingly painful - no half-assing it. You make enough to go for the kill.

The alternate approach, better than L3 mechs, is artillery. BA has an arsenal of long-ranged offensive weapons that you can use to smack the enemy from the safety of a base outside of defensive range. Forget the nukes, unless you're willing to do some heavy recon and precision strikes to take out his antis (which is a worthwhile approach to explore) - go for the LRPCs (Big Bertha or Intimidator - forget the rapidfires) and, if you play core, tacnukes. If you play Arm, your stun-missiles can be used to disable some frontline defenses long enough to punch in with your tanks, or to disable his anti-nuke long enough to nuke him.

[Pxtl]

Again, most important point: what maps???

[smoth]

You can do a lot of ninjitsu with transports... but at your level they're not really worth it.

was my suggestion really that advanced?

[KaiserJ]

maybe it's a silly question, but do you have metalmakers & immobile builders widgets enabled?

when i started with playing BA i knew nothing about helpful widgets, then somebody noticed i wasn't using them and suggested i turn them on; i immediately noticed the difference.

the metalmakers widget turns your makers on and off according to how much E you have... seems like it turns them on when you're about 2/3 full, then back off when you drop to 1/3... if you have enough metalmakers, you'll never waste any E (in a team game, you excess is given to your allies, so it's not as much of a problem) and you'll also never E-stall unless your build potential is too high (too many nanos, not enough power plants)

the immobile builders widget automatically sets your nanos to "patrol", which means they will always assist the creation of buildings and units, heal damages buildings and units, and if there is no other task to perform, they will reclaim any loose resources within their reach.

using these widgets allows you to concentrate more on your expansion and use of units rather than lurking your base and microing your econ.

you may already know about the widgets, but this made enough of a difference for me that i figured i'd post it anyways in case another new player stumbles across the thread. (f11 brings up the widgets menu, just click on them until they turn green to enable)

also, i dont mind playing a game with you and giving you tips if you see me on the lobby, just give me a shout; if you only play against the same people every time, maybe playing against somebody else will let you learn more and draw some inspiration from the strategies; it was somebody offering to help me that allowed me to learn the basics of the game, so how could i refuse to help you especially if it'll help you defeat someone who beats you up with krogs lol

best of luck and good gaming!

[casperjeff]

We play any map 16x16 or bigger...
last couple of battles have been altored_divide and Tabula-v2

I do use the metalmaker AIs but somebody was telling me that I really need to 'upgrade' my metal makers later in the game...says it makes a WORLD of difference. Hints on how I do that?

I always forget about nanos....I really have to make a point to build/place them....

Yeah...I REALLY love artillery...my only real success has come with cranking out midlevel and heavy artillery (and protecting them with anti-air).

Do any of the radar units/targeting systems help the artillery ? I assume that if I can see an enemy unit, so can my artillery, right?

to that point, what about the advanced targeting systems....I saw people building several.....does more than one multiply their effects? Do they increase laser turret accuracy on planes and such?

Thanks for all the hints!

[casperjeff]

another quick question...we always start our games with 1000 metal and 1000 energy.....so it makes resource management early super ultra important. kbot factory is the least costly to build...but vehicles seem to pack a bigger punch. I guess terrain has a lot to say about what to build, but I found myself starting with kbots and never swtiching to vehicles because of the chaos.....

thoughts? How to the vehicle artillery units compare to the kbot mortars?

[manored]

He means you need to build tech 2 metal makers, those are 20% more energy efficient.

Yes your artillery can see everthing you do, so radars and scout units are very important then using artillery. Targeting systems increase the accuracy of all your units, altough thats only really usefull for things such as Long range plasma cannons and annihilators... and the effects are cumulative, altough it probally never hits 100% accuracy.

As a general rule, vehicles are stronger and faster while kbots are more fexible... since the game start is not a good time to try, lets say, "original tactics", I reccomend you start vehicles whenever the terrain allows and make kbots later if you want to try something unusual.

Kbot artillery is either slow (T2 rocket launchers) or fast but with a not-so-long range (mortars). Also unleash something was changed T1 kbots have no artillery... so for artillery you will want vehicles.

The best defense against ubber T3 is to not let it get built. Altough its true that they are metal inneficient they are also a huge amount of power concentrated into a tiny area, and thats hard for any unit to fight efficiently... also, unleash you were stockpiling units most of the metal you gained while the enemy has building it was wasted in attacks agaist him, so you wont have the immediate economy to stop the gigant... if you see a huge T3 kbot incoming, your best option is the dgun... even if you do not need, losing your commander will cost way less than the metal and time you will lose in the units you had to sacrifice.

[Warlord Zsinj]

Post topic got me all excited

[Tribulexrenamed]

Most BA players who know me a bit will advise you otherwise, but I would love to run "Training battles" with you. I often have to relearn BA myself, so its kk.

[Wisse]

I would be glad to help also. Plus if you get Teamspeak up so i don't have to type every tip and advice it would make sessions even better.

I'm [teh]Wisse[PiRO] in game so p.m. me if you wanna help.

[KDR_11k]

Targeting systems increase the accuracy of all your units, altough thats only really usefull for things such as Long range plasma cannons and annihilators... and the effects are cumulative, altough it probally never hits 100% accuracy.

No. They reduce the "dance" of the radar dots, usually they move around quite far and shooting at radar blips ends up with lots of missed shots. Upgrades make the dots stay closer to the unit so attacks against them are more accurate. It's more useful for PRECISION weapons, not inaccurate ones since with lasers and such a miss means no effect at all while it won't make much of a difference with LRPCs or something where the base accuracy is already much lower than the radar error.


Also the word is "unless" not "unleash".

[Gota]

I play a weekly game of BA with my buddies and I really suck. I HATE resource management in general and am not very good at it (usually get stalled on metal) . My buddies all tend to porch and build giant mechs and crush me...laughingly.....while I strategically build, deploy and attach with many level 1/2 units.....

We may start eliminating level 3 units but still, I need to get better.

Anyone want to do some one-on-one tutorials with me to raise my game up? I'm SURE there are plenty of tid-bits about certain units and specialty things that I just don't know that would help...in addition to basic resource management skills.

Do not listen to some of these noob traps above.

For noobs:There are units that you shouldn't use and some u should use a lot.


Here is a list of superior units that you can easy get by with in most cases.
For noobs this means you need to play with these units only.after learning how to play with these units u can start experimenting with others although in most cases you will find them inferior.

level 1 kbots and vehicles :weasel,Jeffy,flea,flash,gator,storm,Rocko,peewee,Ak,slasher,Samson.
Flash and Gator are USUALLY a must unit at most situations even versus heavier ground units like Stumpies or raiders(yes even in large groups).
hammers and thuds-do not use.If you see a player winning with them it it because he is superior to his enemy not cause hammers and thuds are good(they can be useful at relatively rar,tight situations when the battlefield is clogged up with unit wreckage since they can shoot above them while rockos and storms can't.
Use Rockos and storms in MOST cases.

level 2 kbots and vehicles(a small comment,you wont usually need t2 kbots in BA and on most maps you start vehicles anyway so ull probably play t2 kbots much less and most kbot units are inferior to t2 vehicle units): bulldog,Goliath(need a few to get a big advantage),reaper,
sniper(if u must build t2 kbot direct attack units build zeus for arm and Pyro sumo for core).
you might sometimes want to build a few artillery pieces like the t2 artillery or a Penetrator just to psychologically harass your opponent from a far but don't push it with these units in MOST cases you should either build none or only a few.

T1 air units you should notice are Banshee and Core's t1 emp Gunships.
These too can help out land units and the Banshee can penetrate a defensive line without anti air and move directly into the enemy's base destroying first the anti air installations than nano turrets and construction workers than labs and than solars,mexes etc..
small comment about air:t1 fighters are usually unnecessary build ground AA.
T2 air can be used to rush early t2 gunships,build advanced bombers to bomb enemy important targets such as fusions Berthas,commanders,t3 labs etc(if you see an advanced fusion that is almost always your prime target since its explosion will almost always devastate your enemy and hurt his economy badly cause of the adv fusion's huge explosion upon death)...
You'll need tons of fighters if u wish to stop advanced bombers otherwise build ground aa,it will stop gunships but is generally sucky so you better attack with air before your opponent does :) )
Go air only when there are already solid defensive positions and many land units on the battlefield and you see the enemy has no anti air.
An important fact is that the nuke bomber can kill a commander with one shot,in BA,if you drop the bomb close to the commander but not right on him(it will make him fly and receive falling damage which will do him in).

Do not use Kbots on large maps unless your playing a team game in which you are pretty close to your enemy on the opposing team.
In MOST cases play vehicles.
You can even play vehicles on hilly maps but it requires some skill.
You cant however play kbots on flat maps that are bigger than 8x6 or something and if you see someone winning with kbots on flat maps in MOST cases he is just a much better player than his opponent.

-----
If your a noob use the units above,generally prefer vehicles over kbots,and you will have an advantage over others that don't follow this advice.
-----

As for defensive buildings i say:llt llt and again llt.
All other t1 defensive structures are GENERALLY a bad idea but the hlt can be handy at particular situations but if your a noob don't use it,build units instead)
DO NOT BUILD GUARDiANS- this is a major noob trap,no plasma defensive structures please(build attacking units instead)even if you think you'v built one before and it helped you its not true and you would be much better of with attacking units or ecoing or going t2.
Do not use SAM or its equivalent in BA.
It sucks compared to the lighter missile turrets.
It will cover less land,be easier to bomb and is a single target while a bunch of light missile turrets will confuse a player possibly stopping him from attacking your light missile units and just trying to do as much damage as possible to other buildings while his air units are still alive.
If your enemy sees a single SAM standing be sure he will jump on it kill it in a sec and raep the rest of your base.

As for t2 defensive buildings if you'r gonna porc t2 defenses and you're playing vs a good player he will rape you with air and the t2 defenses are actually pretty easily cracked with a god land army as well,even if u have a doomsday machine.

Noobtrap for t2 defensive structures:do not build the arm long laser defensive building(Annihilator?i always confuse the name with the moving unit equivalent which by the way shouldn't be built in most cases as well)It is shit and will die to land attacks as well as small air attacks just don't build it.
If ur core u can try and build a doomsday i guess but moving attack units are ALMOST always better.

About eco,going for mexes isn't always a good thing since at later game stages when your far off into t2 its better to build energy converter economy than go out and try to capture more mexes since they wont live long enough to actually generate a lot of metal.
To be honst the best advice for noobs concerning economy is this:
WATCH YOUR FREAKING METAL AND ENERGY BARS!!!
do not let them be completely full.
The metal bar should be going from 0 to 20% the nergy bar can be full but if u see u have a huge ass energy income that isnt being used build energy converters since they cost almost no metal.
In BA you don't usually need an E storage since its expensive and will definatly ruin your first minutes of play at ALMOST all cases.
In team games if you want to help your teammates yet push your economy forward,when your done expanding and taking metal spots assign 1-2 construction units to build energy producing buildings and 1-2 to make converters,depending on your e and m status at that moment.

Also:do not build armed mexes or clocked mexes they are shit in ba.
Only build clocked mexes if you want to trap an incoming enemy army in the emp blast of an exploding clocked mex(when it explodes it makes an emp blast stunning surrounding units.You can also self destruct it as the army approaches).

i was a bit harsh on ba but beleive me its to your benefit.use the specified units only fomr now on.as u get the hang of them try sometimes using other units.