The two following actions really annoy me:
1) Air players who pick up friendly commanders without asking and either use them as a combomb or just put them down on the other side of the map with the injunction to build there.
2) Any player who reclaims an ally's mex and builds his own there, again without asking, perhaps with the lame excuse that they haven't got enough.
I punish 2) with dgunning the resulting 'allied' extractor and building my own back, and if one 1) happens again I'll send artillery to force fire on their airbases
It should never be acceptable to interfere with an ally's units, especially their commander. Mex imbalances do happen but a quick, reasoned, message to allies should result in some metal sharing or an extractor gifted. Reclaiming, which is nothing more than destroying, is rightly seen as an act of war.
Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
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the-middleman
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Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
So youre saying that 1) and 2) happened in a game yesterday and that really annoyed you and you want to let everyone know?
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
i know what you mean, whenever i get attacked i always dgun all my allies and give everything left to the enemy
serves them right for SUCKING too much to PLAY THE GAME CORRECT !!!
serves them right for SUCKING too much to PLAY THE GAME CORRECT !!!
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
Only after you sat in the back spamming adv solar and metal maker while stalling to make lvl 2 and not making any offensive units for the front.
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
Lordmatt - that may very well be the case, but it's still my right to conduct a battle as I choose.
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
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Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
You could always capture the other mex instead of reclaiming/dgunning even reclaiming before building your own would be more efficient.
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
If you chose to make your whole team die, they have every right to chose not to play with you. Thier battle room is more 'sovereign territory' (into which entry they may forbid or allow anyone) than your units and commander are.
Through your inaction or incompetance, you cost them much more than one measley metal extractor- you cost them the whole game.
You dont have sovereignty over your units, you dont have the right to sit there and do nothing- you have a responsibility to your allies to fight your best and cooperate with them towards your common goal. A responsibility invested in you as a part of the agreement you tacitly make by joining their game and their team.
Not every player can be good, though. If you just arent good enough to contribute much to the team, at least be open and respectful and follow their instructions. Them airdropping you was likely an attempt to put you, a player who is not pulling their weight, into a position that is more beneficial to the team. If you're actually a good player, then you're just being a jerk by letting the team die.
If you dont like playing in a team, go play 1v1. Its fun.
Through your inaction or incompetance, you cost them much more than one measley metal extractor- you cost them the whole game.
You dont have sovereignty over your units, you dont have the right to sit there and do nothing- you have a responsibility to your allies to fight your best and cooperate with them towards your common goal. A responsibility invested in you as a part of the agreement you tacitly make by joining their game and their team.
Not every player can be good, though. If you just arent good enough to contribute much to the team, at least be open and respectful and follow their instructions. Them airdropping you was likely an attempt to put you, a player who is not pulling their weight, into a position that is more beneficial to the team. If you're actually a good player, then you're just being a jerk by letting the team die.
If you dont like playing in a team, go play 1v1. Its fun.
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
That was in response to tombom, but if that was in fact what you were doing, than I have no sympathy. Sometimes the only way for a player to contribute to the team winning the game is to be napped by an ally and used strategically as a com bomb. Also, if you suck, all of the mexes you have capped are essentially wasted, and your presence actually benefits the enemy (as you take metal away from the better players). Your capping mex helps the enemy almost as much as them capping the mex.NT42 wrote:Lordmatt - that may very well be the case, but it's still my right to conduct a battle as I choose.
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
that is a dangerous statement...LordMatt wrote: Also, if you suck, all of the mexes you have capped are essentially wasted
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
It depends on the level of suck. If someone, say, builds a couple cons and then makes 15 factories, and nothing else, by pretty late into the game, and then ragequits when you try to capture, literally wasting all the metal...
Did I mention they blamed their cat on their keyboard for this build queue and then did nothing to fix it even when saying this?
Did I mention they blamed their cat on their keyboard for this build queue and then did nothing to fix it even when saying this?
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
The better the player, the more efficiently they use their resources. While this isn't everything in a win, it is a big contributor.smoth wrote:that is a dangerous statement...LordMatt wrote: Also, if you suck, all of the mexes you have capped are essentially wasted
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
I think some more remarks should be offered here, especially in response to Saktoth's intelligent comments.
Firstly, with regard to the idea of losing players 'a Whole Game', in the absence of any stats for team games, and the fact that most players play several a day, this is not a great loss.
More importantly, talk of having to follow instructions from team mates and of it being legitimate to manipulate any aspect of an ally's units without their consent if it is perceived to be in the interests of the team (itself an arbitrary and entirely transitory grouping), sounds disturbingly Soviet. There is no command structure in Spring, hence instructions that are not phrased as advice are already in danger of being bad manners, since no person has any formal authority. Also, the characteristic feature of team games as opposed to 1v1 is that they comprise sovereign individuals working together, as opposed to mere operators working under the direction either of a 'hive mind' or the collective will.
If there isn't freedom to choose individual strategy, then a team game will simply resemble a scaled-up 1v1 match, as opposed to one where distinct styles are visible within teams. Arguably, anyone with an elementary sense of sporting behaviour will accept that this freedom must occasionally cost a team a game.
I also have little faith in the ability of many 'team players' to make good judgements as to the overall strategy their team should follow: the 'tyranny of the majority' is actually likely to harm the team, by stifling creativity, as well as make it less fun for those who don't want to follow the herd and engage in mindless single-unit tactics.
Firstly, with regard to the idea of losing players 'a Whole Game', in the absence of any stats for team games, and the fact that most players play several a day, this is not a great loss.
More importantly, talk of having to follow instructions from team mates and of it being legitimate to manipulate any aspect of an ally's units without their consent if it is perceived to be in the interests of the team (itself an arbitrary and entirely transitory grouping), sounds disturbingly Soviet. There is no command structure in Spring, hence instructions that are not phrased as advice are already in danger of being bad manners, since no person has any formal authority. Also, the characteristic feature of team games as opposed to 1v1 is that they comprise sovereign individuals working together, as opposed to mere operators working under the direction either of a 'hive mind' or the collective will.
If there isn't freedom to choose individual strategy, then a team game will simply resemble a scaled-up 1v1 match, as opposed to one where distinct styles are visible within teams. Arguably, anyone with an elementary sense of sporting behaviour will accept that this freedom must occasionally cost a team a game.
I also have little faith in the ability of many 'team players' to make good judgements as to the overall strategy their team should follow: the 'tyranny of the majority' is actually likely to harm the team, by stifling creativity, as well as make it less fun for those who don't want to follow the herd and engage in mindless single-unit tactics.
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
People who actually are good at the game need no instruction from teammates. If you are getting such instruction, it means that you are doing something wrong. While there is some diversity of what works to win (and this is the point of a well balanced game). There will certainly be some strats which will lead to the loss, and your teamates can and should tell you to do something else if they can see what you are doing will be detrimental.
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
It is, and while I can understand the frustration of having a player who tries to tek2krog/tek2gundam right away.... I do not feel that is a fair statement lordmatt. To some players YOU are inefficient in your base/unit constructions, I certainly am as well. So perhaps a better line could be drawn?
I do not think that in a team game condoning that sort of behavior is acceptable. Sure he was not THE BEST but what is the line? If I played with you, surely I would not be the best but does that give you a right to nap my comm or destroy my shit because you can make better use? That is a deplorable attitude and I do not think that is what you are trying to show.
Because you are a moderator here and an experience player you are an example. Normaly I wouldn't care that he QQed but if you just decided that he was not playing good enough then you were being unsportsmanlike. There must be more to it then just he wasn't using his resources well. Can you elaborate before this example becomes something players see as acceptable behavior based on their personal inclination to feel like taking resources from an because they deserve it more?
I do not think that in a team game condoning that sort of behavior is acceptable. Sure he was not THE BEST but what is the line? If I played with you, surely I would not be the best but does that give you a right to nap my comm or destroy my shit because you can make better use? That is a deplorable attitude and I do not think that is what you are trying to show.
Because you are a moderator here and an experience player you are an example. Normaly I wouldn't care that he QQed but if you just decided that he was not playing good enough then you were being unsportsmanlike. There must be more to it then just he wasn't using his resources well. Can you elaborate before this example becomes something players see as acceptable behavior based on their personal inclination to feel like taking resources from an because they deserve it more?
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
Yes, a team game is a scaled up 1v1. ONE scaled up 1v1. A well organized team game has the team work as one with each player contributing to one strategy and using the combined mental power and resources to be highly effective. A disorganized team game devolves into MULTIPLE 1v1s where every player is doing his thing, fighting on each front individually without coordination.
Creative freedom is something you have in 1v1 or FFA where you are on your own and can do what you want, in a team game your allies expect you to be a valuable contributor to the game, you take resources for yourself to make sure you can be a valuable contribution to the team effort. If you do nothing to help your allies (or do it badly) the resources you take are wasted and letting you continue will make your allies suffer as they have fewer resources left to do the fighting. People depend on you, don't let them down!
If you cannot contribute to a team don't join a team. Play more 1v1 until you are worth the metal you claim.
Creative freedom is something you have in 1v1 or FFA where you are on your own and can do what you want, in a team game your allies expect you to be a valuable contributor to the game, you take resources for yourself to make sure you can be a valuable contribution to the team effort. If you do nothing to help your allies (or do it badly) the resources you take are wasted and letting you continue will make your allies suffer as they have fewer resources left to do the fighting. People depend on you, don't let them down!
If you cannot contribute to a team don't join a team. Play more 1v1 until you are worth the metal you claim.
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
It bothers me that some people take winning the game as a higher priority than everyone having fun.
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
Well, it's not easy to have fun when your attempts at winning are hampered by some idiot wasting resources. That's more frustrating than fun.
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
smoth, I never played with the OP and didn't do the things he was complaining about. I was speaking generally. If I am hosting a game, I will take one less player rather than take a nub on my team. Also, the difference between me and the best at the game is much less significant than the difference between a nub and a average player (or an average player and a good player, for that matter).
Re: Sovereignty of Units, or when Dgunning allies is acceptable.
Yes we all know Saktoth is a commie!NT42 wrote:sounds disturbingly Soviet
The passive porcupine problem, eh? There is nothing wrong in storng defense, if done correctly. The problem is some (usually new players) have no idea how to do it. You can't sit in a corner, letting your team get slaughtered. You need to cover more than your little mexed area, after all, people with mobile forces can intrecept the enemy outside their 'base zone'. Multiple enemies can swarm a single player easily, if his allies are not helping. Belive me, I know how it is to fight 2v1 up to 5v1 for an extended time while my 'allies' tech up behind their strong defense line, leaving me alone. It is very frustrating, no wonder some might get pissed off and steal mexes/coms.