OTA Ownership

[Gota]

It would seize to exist.

[zwzsg]

I believe the word you are looking for is spelt "cease".

[Gota]

Whatever.

[Caydr]

So they've allowed the trademark to lapse, I guess that's what Shonner is implying. Is that backed up by fact or merely based on Atari not seeming to care?

I see something wrong with the story though. I could have sworn I remember reading in an interview with Chris Taylor that he was unable to buy the rights to Total Annihilation from Atari and therefore decided to make his new project Supreme Commander instead.

What business sense would it make to *not* use an established, nigh-legendary franchise name for SupCom, if in fact it was as simple a matter as going to some government office and trademarking Total Annihilation again, this time by Gas Powered Games?

Besides all this, Phantagram was (relatively) recently asked by Atari to make Total Annihilation 2 but failed to do so in a timely manner, isn't that correct? It's possible of course it's lapsed in the meantime but it would have to be fairly recent.

Someone should ask Shonner where he's getting his information from. I'd do it but I'm uberbanned from anything to do with Infogrames/Atari thanks to my... eh... demonstration.... following the release of Enter the Matrix.

[Zpock]

Actually the TA trademark could very well be considered abandoned nowadays, as in legally not maintained by the owner since they didn't use/protect it for several years.

[Caydr]

"Abandonware" is an invention of the internet, there is no such thing from a legal perspective as far as I know.

[KDR_11k]

The USPTO says the trademark is alive, I think their oppinion has the highest priority there.

[Zpock]

Caydr read up:

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/metaschool ... n/tm.htm#6

I'd think you have to go to court if you want to know what the "opinon with the highest priority" is.

That patent office database live/dead thing isn't it just an automated counter that says it's dead 10 years after registration/renewal?

[RavingManiac]

Almost all of the code in the spring engine and the OTA mods is original and it is not in any way being used for profit, thus I believe that we are officially free from the cavedog IP.

Nevertheless, best not to let Atari know about us...

[Saktoth]

Almost all of the code in the spring engine

True

and the OTA mods

Rubbish. Its the units that are the problem, most of which have barely changed from OTA, and the textures, which havent changed at all. The OTA mods are not in the slightest bit IP free, they are 90% atari IP.

As for the trademark lapsing- they still have the copyright, unless they sold it. Copyrights dont lapse easily.

[smoth]

Almost all of the code in the spring engine and the OTA mods is original and it is not in any way being used for profit, thus I believe that we are officially free from the cavedog IP.

the OTA mods are by and large direct textures, models, scripts and sounds pulled out of TA. While modifications have been made to the scripts and FBIs for various spring related things and gameplay modifications the files are still very stolen.

However, no one cares.

[zwzsg]

http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/metaschool ... n/tm.htm#6

A trademark is abandoned when its use is discontinued with an intent not to resume its use. Such intent can be inferred from the circumstances. Moreover, non-use for three consecutive years is prima facie evidence of abandonment.

It's been about nine years since the last time "Total Annihilation" was used. So, uh, if harvard.edu can be trusted, and if TA is a trademark, it's legally ours no?

[smoth]

you still have to prove intent not to resume

[Zpock]

Read it more closely, to me it looks like it says "you have to prove they don't intend to use it again" and then, "3+ years of not using is enough proof".

[Caydr]

Are Smoth and I the only pessimists here? Stuff like copyrights, patents, and whatever else don't expire in the States until like infinity plus a year now thanks to DMCA and other crazy laws.

Read it more closely, to me it looks like it says "you have to prove they don't intend to use it again" and then, "3+ years of not using is enough proof".

OK would someone kindly explain to my why Bethesda had to BUY the rights to Fallout from Interplay (for a colossal sum), a company that hasn't made any game, let alone a Fallout game, in at least 3 years? Harvard can go suck a lemon as far as I'm concerned, you don't just take a few years and suddenly you can pounce on any names that haven't been used.

Furthermore, you can still buy Total Annihilation from some stores!!! You guys are nuts if you think a name that is still producing money for a publisher, however little, can just be magically "claimed" by some open-source flower children and their RTS engine.

[Zpock]

Yeah well no one here is an actual legal expert I'm sure.

[Caydr]

THE NAME OF A GAME WHICH IS STILL BEING SOLD CANNOT "NOT BE IN USE".

Does anyone disagree with that reasoning? Hell with legal expertise, use your brain, you can't just say "I own this now" and suddenly reality changes to suit you.

Crap, you know, it's been at least 3 years since there was an X-Com game, I am hereby declaring that I own it. It's been at least 3 years since someone made a System Shock game, it's mine now. There's been no Descent 4, I'm hereby taking ownership of that trademark. Interplay, you getting this? I own Descent now, I want ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS for it.

[Zpock]

Well the context is this:

"Abandonware" is an invention of the internet, there is no such thing from a legal perspective as far as I know.

Clearly, there is such a legal concept concerning trademarks, that they are not supposed to be "warehoused", however if it applies to TA or not, who knows.

[lurker]

Is it still being sold by Atari? I mean, I can sell a copy of any random game I have to myself once every three years, and it doesn't mean squat.

But who cares about the trademark? Copyright is still in force either way. And on top of that there would be quite a shitstorm if say, BA was to rename to TA.

[Caydr]

who knows

Me. And it's not. And the only thing that makes something "abandonware" is when the copyright owner hasn't raised a stink about it being distributed YET. Check out Home of the Underdogs, a LOT of their games now say, "so and so as asked us to cease and desist, so go buy it from X store". But it "was" abandonware according to them, so what's going on? The whole universe is suddenly topsy turvy, someone declaring something as being "abandonware" does not make it so? STOP THE PRESSES!

Abandonware = "Hope they don't catch us"-ware.