It should be noted that those who look down on TA based mods here are quite horrid at playing them, and that the alternative works suggested lack elements of depth and strategy found in such basic RTSes as Starcraft and Command & Conquer, so their opinions should be taken with a grain of salt. ~~
As for worries about copyrights, TA with both expansions was selling for $5 retail in 2007 - no one's going to care about your use of its content one way or another unless you start a company and try to use unmodified content and sell it, which you won't, as the original content's lost all commercial value. If you're having twinges of conscience, then - "Give all that you have to the poor, and follow [Christ]." - have them about something worth having them about. There are free, mostly uncopyrighted mods for Spring, but without TA content, Spring simply wouldn't be worth playing, and that's that.
TA Derivative Balancing Theory Discussion
Moderator: Moderators
Dismissing _gameplay_ feedback based on the "skill" of a player is perfectly understandable.smoth wrote:It also should be noted that dismissing negative feedback based on the "skill" of a player is also foolish.Tired wrote:It should be noted that those who look down on TA based mods here are quite horrid at playing them,
That worked really well for Natural Selection.tombom wrote: Dismissing _gameplay_ feedback based on the "skill" of a player is perfectly understandable.
The "best" players are not always that good. They have learned a few tricks and been anal enough to dry hump the game into submission. That being said, this sort of mentality is also where "LOL NOOB" replies are given as feedback to negative criticism. By your definition I would have NO IDEA on game play when compared to someone like say.. Cabbage(sorry man just the first good TA player to come to mind) yet that completely dismisses what I may or may not know.
The point being is that skilled players know units and what units to use over and over again. This breeds crap like the fondness for gator and flash spam often times resulting in all other units being forsaken when it comes to balance and frankly rendered useless as gator or flask or ak is all you need. Not balance, just dumbed down and who ever has the fastest base and spam abilities wins.
+1 Also, only people who have gotten good at a game no how much they sucked before (and how a lot of what they thought and argued about was nonsense)Tired wrote:It should be noted that those who look down on TA based mods here are quite horrid at playing them, and that the alternative works suggested lack elements of depth and strategy found in such basic RTSes as Starcraft and Command & Conquer, so their opinions should be taken with a grain of salt. ~~
That would be a straw man of my position. You learn the most by playing games and then watching your replays when you lose. Watching other people play will teach you things (that's how I learned a lot initially, in OTA), however there really is no substitute to losing to good players and learning why you lost. When you stop losing you, you know a lot more about the game than when you first started out (and were learning mostly by watching other people).
Ah so you will not say directly that you feel someone like me knows less about balance then you do? Ok, so you feel demos teach very little? Come on man, which is it? Stand up and say it. you are dancing around the question.
DOES "SKILL" mean you know MORE and gameplay then people who actually make stuff in the engine? I am talking only gameplay, not art creation, or scripting ability.
DOES "SKILL" mean you know MORE and gameplay then people who actually make stuff in the engine? I am talking only gameplay, not art creation, or scripting ability.
??? I've said that tonnes of times on this forum already, but I say it in relation to TA style mods, I don't know or care about others. Also I didn't say demos teach little, they teach the most when you're watching your own loss to a good player, less when you're watching other people play (but you can still learn a lot). In fact, you can become an average (or possibly even above average) by mostly watching demos and other people play, but you will never get good (and shouldn't be balancing an OTA mod) without a lot of ingame experience. Noize is a better player than cabbage, and don't forget day contributed a lot to BA (and is one of the top few players).smoth wrote:Ah so you will not say directly that you feel someone like me knows less about balance then you do? Ok, so you feel demos teach very little? Come on man, which is it? Stand up and say it. you are dancing around the question.
Yes, the people who are best at the game know the most about gameplay, even more than the game's creators. You can have ideas about how your game will play, but they may or may not turn out to be correct. The truth will come from whoever is best at playing your game. Chris Taylor and co. never intended for MT forests to dominate OTA, but that's what happened because the good players figured out they were better than laser towers for the cost.smoth wrote: DOES "SKILL" mean you know MORE and gameplay then people who actually make stuff in the engine? I am talking only gameplay, not art creation, or scripting ability.
I just wanted to know what you thought. I'll try to make mental note that I know nothing and should obviously bow down before those who are "the best." I'll remember to defer to them as they have superior wisdom. I'll remember to chastise anyone as ignorant when they question said "best players" and I will remember that epenor makes you omniscient. Thanks, it will be good to know.
(Arm >>>>>>>>> Core)
