Spring in China - Page 5

Spring in China

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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Tronic
Posts: 75
Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 03:21

Post by Tronic »

el_matarife wrote:Well, Taiwan and China use the same character set as far as I know, so I referenced India since I assume they're using a different character set than our current vanilla ASCII.
ASCII only has the US letters, not even things like ├â┬ñ and ├â┬Â, and even less any Chinese characters. Unicode, on the other hand, has everything on it, so from a developer POV getting the characters displayed is not an issue. The user will of course require the proper fonts, but this shouldn't be an issue (the user most likely already has his native fonts installed). Additionally, the text direction (right-to-left, vertical) might be an issue. I don't know how this is handled by the GUIs and it could potentially be a problem visible for application programmers too (i.e. the GUI library cannot internally handle it).
Is the [wxWidgets] performance okay? I just remember all the complaints about performance in the original BT client using WxPython and wonder if this is still sluggish.
Every single Python application that I have seen has been too slow (except for the BT client on my boxes, which are very fast). I think that the problem that you are referring to is because of Python, not because of wxWidgets, which seems to perform quite nicely even on low-end machines, especially on Windows (WIN32 is fast, GTK is clearly much slower). Programs start in a blink and the GUIs are very responsive.
Last edited by Tronic on 21 Jul 2007, 00:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Tronic
Posts: 75
Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 03:21

Post by Tronic »

neddiedrow wrote:Time out. If you stopped with 1.4, then you shouldn't pass judgment on Java.
Doesn't mean that I haven't followed the development since then, too :P

(I used too many negatives - I guess that's because of Java - pun intended)
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el_matarife
Posts: 933
Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 02:04

Post by el_matarife »

Tronic wrote: ASCII only has the US letters, not even things like ├â┬ñ and ├â┬Â, and even less any Chinese characters. Unicode, on the other hand, has everything on it, so from a developer POV getting the characters displayed is not an issue. The user will of course require the proper fonts, but this shouldn't be an issue (the user most likely already has his native fonts installed). Additionally, the text direction (right-to-left, vertical) might be an issue. I don't know how this is handled by the GUIs and it could potentially be a problem visible for application programmers too (i.e. the GUI library cannot internally handle it).
I was just referring to the fact that right now, all we have working is basically the Ascii character set plus a few European characters. We'd need real working Unicode for real support for Chinese, Indian, and any other player groups that have completely different character sets.
Tronic wrote: not because of wxWidgets, which seems to perform quite nicely even on low-end machines, especially on Windows (WIN32 is fast, GTK is clearly much slower). Programs start in a blink and the GUIs are very responsive.
You could compare anything to GTK for Windows and look good heh.
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bwansy
Posts: 385
Joined: 02 May 2006, 05:21

Post by bwansy »

Mainland China uses Simplified Chinese while Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau uses Traditional Chinese. And Hong Kong has its own set of character extension as well.
As for the connectivity problem, I believe I have no problem here in HK. I don't know why there is a problem in mainland. I know that the US had allocated a very insufficient range of IPs to mainland, but I am not sure if this is responsible for the problem.
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Tim Blokdijk
Posts: 1239
Joined: 29 May 2005, 11:18

Post by Tim Blokdijk »

I think I'm suffering from a routing problem at some point, packages seem to get dropped by one of the last routers when I try to connect to the taclub.net server.
My packages get as far as 61.137.0.138 an IP registered to "CHINANET-HN - CHINANET Hunan province network" I'm almost suspecting the not so great firewall of china. :? But it could also be a misconfiguration by chinanet.
Anyway my problem seems to be separate from the high ping problem the Chinese have.
The shortage of ip's for mainland China should not give connectivity problems on itself.
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chaime
Posts: 12
Joined: 10 Nov 2006, 20:55

Post by chaime »

I download spring's source code and update the code as the picture below:

Image

spring works as picture below:

Image

That's the problem.
I think the most important thing is make spring displaying Chinese characters as we can understand.
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Tronic
Posts: 75
Joined: 30 Nov 2006, 03:21

Post by Tronic »

You cannot just write Chinese in the source code. Instead, the text snippets should be loaded from a language file that uses UTF-8 and converted to a proper format (for wxStrings or whatever libs are used) runtime.
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chaime
Posts: 12
Joined: 10 Nov 2006, 20:55

Post by chaime »

Tronic wrote:You cannot just write Chinese in the source code. Instead, the text snippets should be loaded from a language file that uses UTF-8 and converted to a proper format (for wxStrings or whatever libs are used) runtime.
Yes,that's the spring's problem.
as we know,supcom,we can update English text in loc_US.scd to Chinese text ,it works as picture below,thas't we want.
Image
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SwiftSpear
Classic Community Lead
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Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29

Post by SwiftSpear »

chaime: Spring isn't finished yet, it's still being worked on and improved all the time. One day someone will add it (hopefully soon), not just for Chinese but for many languages.

Many many many other things are being worked on at the same time, be patient :)

Last week we didn't even know we had Chinese players, now that we do, we know more things need to be done to make playing easier for them. :)
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smoth
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Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46

Post by smoth »

oh F*ck ASIAN knows about spring... now I will have gundam players... d*mnit, I cannot beat asia at gundam. :? I hope asia doesn't know about gundam... spring they can find out about but gundam, I'll never win again at it... :(
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Tim Blokdijk
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Joined: 29 May 2005, 11:18

Post by Tim Blokdijk »

Those pictures from taclub.net is there anybody else that can't see them?
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SwiftSpear
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Post by SwiftSpear »

I see them...

It's basicly just the supcom menu with Chinese characters.
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TradeMark
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Joined: 17 Feb 2006, 15:58

Post by TradeMark »

I dont understand why do we need language files, cant they read english?
Its not much needed to learn few words in english, like "start game" or "quit" etc...

Other languages than english has always confused me when reading the game menus etc, its just much clearer to use one language in all games or programs. At the start i liked more finnish menus, because my english skills were shit, but its not really that hard to learn few ten words...
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Dragon45
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Joined: 16 Aug 2004, 04:36

Post by Dragon45 »

For all you geniuses who've been referring to "Indian" as a language: ITS NOT. India has dozens of languages; the big ones include, but are not limited to, Hindi, Tamil, Punjabi, Telagu, Urdu, Marathi, Gujurati [...]

They are different and SEPERATE languages, although they have similarities between them.

The WRITTEN form of the languages tends to be in a script called "devnagri", which is said something like "THEY'VE-naag-hri". There are a handful of characters, and words and senetences are assembled by stictching together these characters, as well as by applying appropriate accent marks in some places.


Additionally, PLEASE do not refer to someone who is religiously Hindu as a "Hindi". It's really freaking annoying and we think you're retarded when you do that, even if we act all nice and say "oh no, actually the religion is hindu", or choose to ignore your sorry ass altogether. You wouldnt want me to say "Do you speak Christian" to you, now would you?
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bwansy
Posts: 385
Joined: 02 May 2006, 05:21

Post by bwansy »

TradeMark wrote:I dont understand why do we need language files, cant they read english?
Its not much needed to learn few words in english, like "start game" or "quit" etc...

Other languages than english has always confused me when reading the game menus etc, its just much clearer to use one language in all games or programs. At the start i liked more finnish menus, because my english skills were shit, but its not really that hard to learn few ten words...
If "it's not hard to learn few ten words", why would "other languages than english" confuse you? From your point of view, both your mother language -- Finnish and English are composed of Roman alphabet. That's why English is relatively easy to you. But have you ever thought of others? Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Indian group, Hebrew, Arabic, you name it, none of them are not composed of Roman alphabet. The way they look at Roman alphabet is just the same as you looking at these "confusing" languages.
For me, it doesn't matter if it's English, Chinese or Japanese. But for others, reading one's mother language is much better. Not just in the game menu, but much more importantly, ingame chatting. I believe implementing multi-language support (preferably with Unicode) would help spreading Spring greatly.
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Tim Blokdijk
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Joined: 29 May 2005, 11:18

Post by Tim Blokdijk »

Dragon45 wrote:Indian ... India ... Hindi .. languages . "THEY'VE-naag-hri" Bla.. Bla..
Didn't the Indian people came from America?






:wink:
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FoeOfTheBee
Posts: 557
Joined: 12 May 2005, 18:26

Post by FoeOfTheBee »

TradeMark wrote:I dont understand why do we need language files, cant they read english?
Its not much needed to learn few words in english, like "start game" or "quit" etc...

Other languages than english has always confused me when reading the game menus etc, its just much clearer to use one language in all games or programs. At the start i liked more finnish menus, because my english skills were shit, but its not really that hard to learn few ten words...
I think this goes to the urgency of the problem, not the fact of the problem.

I've done some translations on open source projects. I don't know how things actually worked, but I took a .po file, translated it, sent it to a developer, and that was that.

Could .po files be generated for the engine and lobby to ease translation for languages with latin alphabets?

*found some info here: http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_node/ looks like it is not an easy fix, but maybe eventually...
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TradeMark
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Joined: 17 Feb 2006, 15:58

Post by TradeMark »

bwansy wrote:But have you ever thought of others? Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Indian group, Hebrew, Arabic, you name it, none of them are not composed of Roman alphabet.
Oh, yeah i didnt think of chinese etc. but i have always thought they can english too... or at least roman alphabets, because roman alphabets are used everywhere globally, like in some logos etc...

bwansy wrote:The way they look at Roman alphabet is just the same as you looking at these "confusing" languages.
For me, it doesn't matter if it's English, Chinese or Japanese.
Yeah, but i ment with confusing that im reading finnish menu texts, they confuse me because im used to english menu texts.
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el_matarife
Posts: 933
Joined: 27 Feb 2006, 02:04

Post by el_matarife »

Dragon45 wrote:For all you geniuses who've been referring to "Indian" as a language: ITS NOT. India has dozens of languages; the big ones include, but are not limited to, Hindi, Tamil, Punjabi, Telagu, Urdu, Marathi, Gujurati [...]

They are different and SEPARATE languages, although they have similarities between them.

The WRITTEN form of the languages tends to be in a script called "devnagri", which is said something like "THEY'VE-naag-hri". There are a handful of characters, and words and sentences are assembled by stitching together these characters, as well as by applying appropriate accent marks in some places.
I know, but I was referring to Indian players, not their languages. Also, I had no idea what character set spanned all 22 Indian languages, or if there was one mainly used on the Internet, though I was assuming it was Hindi.
bwansy wrote:Mainland China uses Simplified Chinese while Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau uses Traditional Chinese. And Hong Kong has its own set of character extension as well.
Oops.
bwansy wrote: As for the connectivity problem, I believe I have no problem here in HK. I don't know why there is a problem in mainland. I know that the US had allocated a very insufficient range of IPs to mainland, but I am not sure if this is responsible for the problem.
That's true, I heard they've run out of IPV4 addresses and are transitioning to IPV6. No idea if that's what is causing the problem though.
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chaime
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Joined: 10 Nov 2006, 20:55

Post by chaime »

TradeMark wrote:I dont understand why do we need language files, cant they read english?
Its not much needed to learn few words in english, like "start game" or "quit" etc...

Other languages than english has always confused me when reading the game menus etc, its just much clearer to use one language in all games or programs. At the start i liked more finnish menus, because my english skills were shit, but its not really that hard to learn few ten words...
Most of chinese needn't touch English in working and living.
so when they leave school,they'll forget English,they will 'give it back to teacher'. :-)
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