So there's just the give widget thing? Anywayz, i don't mind any fancy formation widgets, or economy widgets or whatever, as long as the only thing stopping me from doing what i want to do with my units is my speed and not a widget or feature, for example squads. Squads force my units to stick together, i'd rather it be hard to keep my units together or spread them out than being forced to keep them together because a feature makes it easier.
Also...
Chess i find very fun, but what stopped me playing chess is real time strategy, alot of people want strategy to be more important which it is, but they forget about the real time part of it, without the real time, RTS would just be intelligence spaem and see how many strategies you can make.
Also...
Why is there even talk of APM in ta? ta is probaly the slowest RTS there is, i wouldn't be surprised if i was the only one using the "1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0" buttons, and i get creamed 24/7.
Also...
ofcourse apm is for boasting/feeling good, so is playing competitivly. Some of you fuckers have never even put time into getting faster, and yet you feel you can sit there sipping your gay tea telling everyone that being fast is a waste of time. Well fuck you, you think 3 digits apm is an amazing peak, well it's very average, you cannot play starcraft properly if you're getting below 3 digits, 150 apm is like standard. Ta doesn't even fucking record Actions properly, just clicks and commands, and i see some of you actually spamming clicks just so you can say your fast, and you have worse unit control than isaac. Fuck you. Wow you got over 100 button presses?! you fucking dickhead, that's because you spend more time chatting than playing, fuck you.
Also...
Everytime one of you shits posts on the forum "strategy this, tactics that" it pisses me off, because every single time i see you ingame most of you are struggling just to execute a simple mediocre strat (the same strat everyone does for that particuler map).
Felony 1 - mod
i don't even know if it's your doing, but everyone thinks all i do is steal "LCC Strats".
I remember when demo was no better than neddidrow, but he wasn't so fucking up himself he didn't want to learn, now look at him.
Felony 1 - mod
Ta doesn't even fucking calculate propper fucking actions.
How do you stop LUA that cheats?
Moderator: Moderators
neddiedrow wrote:Somebody had to bring up Starcraft. Again.
The competitive nature doesn't matter if it is a simple, dull game. It is a simple, dull game. I know, I played it for years, I own two copies, and I probably peaked in three-digit APM. It isn't a golden standard of anything with value. Competition has no inherent value. It is a benchmark, a notable title in a long timeline of notable titles - but notability is relative. for me it doesn't mean much - for you it might be the most important thing in your life. The difference between us is that I recognize the status of some of what I say as opinion, and you do not apply the same judgment to your own words.
Somebody had to patronize me. Again.
APM is one, minute detail. One detail. If you're going to treat it as the whole ball of wax; a complex collection of factors in which it isn't even the most important, particularly in this engine, then you aren't being rational. If you're going to attack me on top of it, I have few enough words left for you at this time.
I SERIOUSLY THINK STARCRAFT OR ANY OTHER RTS IS YOUR THING. AGAIN I REPEAT: SHOW ME 20 X 60 APM PLAYERS BEATING 20X 200 APM PLAYERS.
Jackalope: DEMO ACTUALLY HAS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME APM AS I DO.
Swiftspear: ORDER QUES ETC INDEED ALLOW A PLAYER TO USE LESS APM, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN ONE SHOULD HAVE A LOW APM. QUEING AND REPEAT ORDERS JUST GIVE YOU MORE TIME TO FOCUS ON THE OTHER THINGS LIKE EXPOING AND PROTECTING ALREADY RUNNING EXPOS AND MICROING YOUR EARLY GAME HARASSERS AND MID-LATE GAME FIGHTS AND MANY OTHER THINGS.
[ if you ramp your APM up through normal play your in game effectiveness will improve. But there are lots of ways to waste actions on irrelevant commands in spring. ]
I AGREE WITH THIS, A PLAYER CAN HAVE 220 APM AND OUT OF THAT 150 CAN BE CLICKING THAT JEFFY IN A CORNER. BUT THE THING IS THAT WHAT IF YOUR PLAYING A MATCH OF THE GOOD 'OLD COMET, AND YOU UP AGAINST A PLAYER OF ROUGHLY YOUR SKILL LEVEL, YOUR APM IS 60 AND THE OTHER ONE'S IS 220 , YOUR USING YOUR APM ON ONE THING AT A TIME, YOU SEND YOUR SCOUT BUT IT DIES TO A LLT BECAUSE YOU WERE QUING UP MEXES. THE OTHER PLAYER ON THE OTHER HAND, BEING A FASTER PLAYER HAS QUED UP THE MEXES FASTER, GETS A JEFFY IN YOUR BASE AND TAKES DOWN 1-2 MEXES. IF THIS IS NOT SUPERIOR GAMEPLAY; WHAT IS?
SURE I'VE SEEN SOME REALLY GOOD PLAYERS THAT HAVE RELATIVELY LOW APM LIKE HEZE OR WILSBY, BUT THAT DOESNT MEAN THEY WOULDNT BE EVEN BETTER WITH BIGGER APM
If you use widgets and are able to do what 150 APM players do in 30 APM, then it may mean two things:
1) you cheat,
2) the game is more work than game.
BUT notice that there's nothing stopping the 150 APM player to use those widgets and kick some serious ass with 120 APM left to do more important things.
(That's also how it works in the real world - higher ranked soldiers issue orders to lower ranked soldiers, but every one of them tries his best, not executes them blindly as a sheep like 99,9% percent of any RTS units do. Yes, I know games aren't the real world.)
1) you cheat,
2) the game is more work than game.
BUT notice that there's nothing stopping the 150 APM player to use those widgets and kick some serious ass with 120 APM left to do more important things.
(That's also how it works in the real world - higher ranked soldiers issue orders to lower ranked soldiers, but every one of them tries his best, not executes them blindly as a sheep like 99,9% percent of any RTS units do. Yes, I know games aren't the real world.)
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
There's probably something wrong with your play if you have 30 APM period. I consider my APM Probably pretty bad, but even I'm probably in the 60-90 range. It doesn't take a huge amount of effort to click at least once per second.imbaczek wrote:If you use widgets and are able to do what 150 APM players do in 30 APM, then it may mean two things:
1) you cheat,
2) the game is more work than game.
BUT notice that there's nothing stopping the 150 APM player to use those widgets and kick some serious ass with 120 APM left to do more important things.
(That's also how it works in the real world - higher ranked soldiers issue orders to lower ranked soldiers, but every one of them tries his best, not executes them blindly as a sheep like 99,9% percent of any RTS units do. Yes, I know games aren't the real world.)
Trepan, it seems to me that a project or mod can employ this command via the luarules? which means that ultimately the content developer may take resposiblity for the controll of unwanted scropts.
in all honesty, it seems that the engine is moving more into an open form one, which will require a bit more in the way of effort. A mere mutator labed "safe" for nohelp and unsafe for open to user scripts... although, this could be added into the lobby.
I understand that many players are aprehensious over all of the new cheating possibilities of lua. However, this is going to become more and more the resposibility of hosts and content developers. This is a sort of growing pain for the spring community I am sure but it is in no way the end of the world in spring
in all honesty, it seems that the engine is moving more into an open form one, which will require a bit more in the way of effort. A mere mutator labed "safe" for nohelp and unsafe for open to user scripts... although, this could be added into the lobby.
I understand that many players are aprehensious over all of the new cheating possibilities of lua. However, this is going to become more and more the resposibility of hosts and content developers. This is a sort of growing pain for the spring community I am sure but it is in no way the end of the world in spring
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
You have no idea of how much skill was required in TA to run a good MM based eco. This was the kind of stuff that separated the elite online players from the mass of the n00bs.LOrDo wrote:You CAN'T be serious.trepan wrote:jackalope:
Automatic metal maker control is obviously a cheat, problem solved.
See, there's a difference between a player doing that and a group AI doing it. It actually takes a lot of skill to time your switching of metal makers with energy consumption and wind variation properply so you never exceed energy, yet stil have enough energy to not stall and fire lasers. There's some lengedary demos that showed how OTA players elevated the switching of metal makers on and off to an art. It's really not cheating if the player has the skill to pull it off.
Of course the group AI equivalent should be considered cheats. It removes that skill element from the game.
lol no, it didnt need skills at all, or if you were total retard, you might fail at controlling them. It was just annoying to control them all the time, like before attack, etc, or when you wanna use dgun, you need to press those damn shortkeys all the time...zwzsg wrote:You have no idea of how much skill was required in TA to run a good MM based eco. This was the kind of stuff that separated the elite online players from the mass of the n00bs.