Alrighty then.Drawer wrote:Super ugly - dont like anything about it - also the html is broken
New Spring site design, I need your feedback.
Moderator: Moderators
Having news sections at the bottom of the frontpage is a guarantee that they will never be read. News are important, and should be some of the first things you see. The full text of the latest project news should be displayed in it's entirety (to a reasonable degree - if it's three pages long it should probably be cut down 
).
The header is too tall, takes too much space. The main image and the one on the right (under the _SPRING_ text) also clash very badly. The spring logo you're using should replaced with the current one, unless we can get something that looks better.
I don't like the look of the new link tabs either, they're a bit big and don't fit very well with what's around them.
There's a bit of rendering problems broken layouts but I'm assuming you're working on that (using Konqueror and Firefox).
I think the main problem as it is now is that's it's a bit messy, and I feel like just glazing over it and going somewhere else. I've always been pretty minimalist on web pages though.
edit: What is the purpose of the "Highlights" entry? Isn't it basically the same as the community news section?
).The header is too tall, takes too much space. The main image and the one on the right (under the _SPRING_ text) also clash very badly. The spring logo you're using should replaced with the current one, unless we can get something that looks better.
I don't like the look of the new link tabs either, they're a bit big and don't fit very well with what's around them.
There's a bit of rendering problems broken layouts but I'm assuming you're working on that (using Konqueror and Firefox).
I think the main problem as it is now is that's it's a bit messy, and I feel like just glazing over it and going somewhere else. I've always been pretty minimalist on web pages though.
edit: What is the purpose of the "Highlights" entry? Isn't it basically the same as the community news section?
Um, does anybody want me to rework the graphics? Or maybe Forb? Or, gawd forbid, one of the other folks we have around here who knows how to paint?
<ducks>
That said, I think that my main real issue with the site (after all, structure is the important thing, that and the database-side stuff to actually make it useful) is that it's trying to do too much, and it doesn't fit comfortably in a 1280/1024 screen- heck, IIRC, it doesn't fit comfortably into my 1600/1200 rez at home...
A much simpler layout, with attractive eye-candy sidebar (Forum, Wiki, iCandy, Games, Contribute), rotating advertisement (for games for Spring, of course, and hopefully with some sort of simple Flash that makes it appear to be shiny- I've seen pretty decent stuff out there that makes a button look like glass in a moving lightsource) topbar, and a straightforward mid-right main area for newsreel stuff to have plenty of room just seems like it'd work better. People shouldn't need to hit every single bloody thing from just one page- the key is that they are started off towards every major path from that page, they can always get back to that main page with one, obvious, click, and they can always change what major path they're on, again with a single obvious click.
I know I'm probably going to get flamed for pointing towards it, but if you visit my site, while it is 100% non-database-driven, ultra-primitive HTML, it's attractive (ok, not "omg, that Flash is leet", but meh, I made it in 24 hours), easily-maintained, and it bloody well works. I will be the first to say that the sub-pages are terribly designed, etc., because I just never seem to have any desire to even update the bloody thing, since I mainly use it as a file depository rather than a promo tool, but you get the idea... simpler is better, and frames are available for a reason
<ducks>
That said, I think that my main real issue with the site (after all, structure is the important thing, that and the database-side stuff to actually make it useful) is that it's trying to do too much, and it doesn't fit comfortably in a 1280/1024 screen- heck, IIRC, it doesn't fit comfortably into my 1600/1200 rez at home...
A much simpler layout, with attractive eye-candy sidebar (Forum, Wiki, iCandy, Games, Contribute), rotating advertisement (for games for Spring, of course, and hopefully with some sort of simple Flash that makes it appear to be shiny- I've seen pretty decent stuff out there that makes a button look like glass in a moving lightsource) topbar, and a straightforward mid-right main area for newsreel stuff to have plenty of room just seems like it'd work better. People shouldn't need to hit every single bloody thing from just one page- the key is that they are started off towards every major path from that page, they can always get back to that main page with one, obvious, click, and they can always change what major path they're on, again with a single obvious click.
I know I'm probably going to get flamed for pointing towards it, but if you visit my site, while it is 100% non-database-driven, ultra-primitive HTML, it's attractive (ok, not "omg, that Flash is leet", but meh, I made it in 24 hours), easily-maintained, and it bloody well works. I will be the first to say that the sub-pages are terribly designed, etc., because I just never seem to have any desire to even update the bloody thing, since I mainly use it as a file depository rather than a promo tool, but you get the idea... simpler is better, and frames are available for a reason
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Tim Blokdijk
- Posts: 1242
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 11:18
@kujeger
Highlight is similar to "Latest community news" on the current news/entry page. News has its own dedicated page. Banner still needs work.
See General Spring Site Documentation section 4.4 at this moment but do understand that I'm still (re)writing this doc.
I just made a topic to follow this process myself here so it hopefully gets more concrete now and not just some unimplemented paper bureaucracy.
As for your idea's itself, some of it would require quite a few big changes, I like to get the site in production (in actual use) relatively soon. Maybe you can split it up in two parts a touch-up of the current layout and graphics. That way you get familiar with the code as it is and we don't have to push back the 2.0 release and then for version 2.1 you have the time for a solid redesign?
More practical, do you prefer GIMP or PhotoShop?
AF and I ran into some trouble with that.
PhotoShop is not available for Linux. (although I still have to try wine)
It has a closed format.
It's very expensive.
Not open source.
GIMP is overall behind in features and development is crawling forward as in the gap between GIMP and PhotoShop seems to grow not shrink.
I'm not aware of any real alternatives in the raster graphics section.
Corel Draw for Linux is discontinued as far as I know and still closed (format and source) and expensive.
The rest is vector based.
Highlight is similar to "Latest community news" on the current news/entry page. News has its own dedicated page. Banner still needs work.
If you are willing to do it then please help out. Do understand you also would have to work according to the development process I was talking about.Argh wrote:Um, does anybody want me to rework the graphics? Or maybe Forb? Or, gawd forbid, one of the other folks we have around here who knows how to paint?
<ducks>
That said, I think that my main real issue with the site (after all, structure is the important thing, that and the database-side stuff to actually make it useful) is that it's trying to do too much, and it doesn't fit comfortably in a 1280/1024 screen- heck, IIRC, it doesn't fit comfortably into my 1600/1200 rez at home...
A much simpler layout, with attractive eye-candy sidebar (Forum, Wiki, iCandy, Games, Contribute), rotating advertisement (for games for Spring, of course, and hopefully with some sort of simple Flash that makes it appear to be shiny- I've seen pretty decent stuff out there that makes a button look like glass in a moving lightsource) topbar, and a straightforward mid-right main area for newsreel stuff to have plenty of room just seems like it'd work better. People shouldn't need to hit every single bloody thing from just one page- the key is that they are started off towards every major path from that page, they can always get back to that main page with one, obvious, click, and they can always change what major path they're on, again with a single obvious click.
I know I'm probably going to get flamed for pointing towards it, but if you visit my site, while it is 100% non-database-driven, ultra-primitive HTML, it's attractive (ok, not "omg, that Flash is leet", but meh, I made it in 24 hours), easily-maintained, and it bloody well works. I will be the first to say that the sub-pages are terribly designed, etc., because I just never seem to have any desire to even update the bloody thing, since I mainly use it as a file depository rather than a promo tool, but you get the idea... simpler is better, and frames are available for a reason
See General Spring Site Documentation section 4.4 at this moment but do understand that I'm still (re)writing this doc.
I just made a topic to follow this process myself here so it hopefully gets more concrete now and not just some unimplemented paper bureaucracy.
As for your idea's itself, some of it would require quite a few big changes, I like to get the site in production (in actual use) relatively soon. Maybe you can split it up in two parts a touch-up of the current layout and graphics. That way you get familiar with the code as it is and we don't have to push back the 2.0 release and then for version 2.1 you have the time for a solid redesign?
More practical, do you prefer GIMP or PhotoShop?
AF and I ran into some trouble with that.
PhotoShop is not available for Linux. (although I still have to try wine)
It has a closed format.
It's very expensive.
Not open source.
GIMP is overall behind in features and development is crawling forward as in the gap between GIMP and PhotoShop seems to grow not shrink.
I'm not aware of any real alternatives in the raster graphics section.
Corel Draw for Linux is discontinued as far as I know and still closed (format and source) and expensive.
The rest is vector based.
Well gimp does open photoshop, it just doesnt like the blending between layers photoshop can do, and since hat blending isnt hard to recreate i fail to see the point. Especialyl when it can eb exported as is in png with all the effects in place, or even layer by layer so ti can eb reassembled with all the effects in gimp.
Frames are the work of the devil, nobody in their right mind would use frames after the year 2000. Its just bad user design at its worst. You also have bad use of colours/lack fo colour scheme.Argh wrote:frames are available for a reason
You could include a little cross-fading js I wrote for the sceenshots on the right side.. I setup a little example:
https://meltrax.homeip.net/projects/oth ... Slideshow/
If you want to, you can just copy that js and include it. If you have any questions, just ask me here or PM me in the lobby..
This is only meant for pictures with the same dimensions but it seems like you want to make the thumbnails all the same size..
This should work in IE >= 5.5, Firefox >= 1.x, Opera >= 8.0..
https://meltrax.homeip.net/projects/oth ... Slideshow/
If you want to, you can just copy that js and include it. If you have any questions, just ask me here or PM me in the lobby..
This is only meant for pictures with the same dimensions but it seems like you want to make the thumbnails all the same size..
This should work in IE >= 5.5, Firefox >= 1.x, Opera >= 8.0..
that's pretty sweet, but I'm not sure how I feel about things switching out of the corner of my eye. seems distracting. I think I'd prefer a "switch on reload" kinda effect.MelTraX wrote:You could include a little cross-fading js I wrote for the sceenshots on the right side.. I setup a little example:
https://meltrax.homeip.net/projects/oth ... Slideshow/
If you want to, you can just copy that js and include it. If you have any questions, just ask me here or PM me in the lobby..
This is only meant for pictures with the same dimensions but it seems like you want to make the thumbnails all the same size..
This should work in IE >= 5.5, Firefox >= 1.x, Opera >= 8.0..
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Tim Blokdijk
- Posts: 1242
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 11:18
@aGorm
PhotoShop for Linux would be a reasonable fix. And it's not off-topic as it's important for the collaboration on the site.
@AF
The point is that I can only see the way GIMP renders a .psd file, you can fire up PhotoShop and make a comparison to see what's wrong - I have to guess. And I can't save to .psd without losing a lot of data. Png is non-editable making it useless as a source file. So it's still a bit of an issue. At some point we just have to get practical about this but I do like to take some time for research.
And about the frames, you should keep it to arguments as the devil and the year 2000 don't have anything to do with the use of frames.
Although "user design" (and I presume you mean page layout with that) can be inflexible with frames.
@MelTraX
Looks quite good, it's something that has been requested quite a few times. Could you implement it in the site and send me a patch? (You can find the site in svn https://taspring.clan-sy.com/svn/spring ... ring_blue/)
Or is that beyond you skills? You would have to implement it without breaking the site for non-JavaScript browsers.
PhotoShop for Linux would be a reasonable fix. And it's not off-topic as it's important for the collaboration on the site.
@AF
The point is that I can only see the way GIMP renders a .psd file, you can fire up PhotoShop and make a comparison to see what's wrong - I have to guess. And I can't save to .psd without losing a lot of data. Png is non-editable making it useless as a source file. So it's still a bit of an issue. At some point we just have to get practical about this but I do like to take some time for research.
And about the frames, you should keep it to arguments as the devil and the year 2000 don't have anything to do with the use of frames.
Although "user design" (and I presume you mean page layout with that) can be inflexible with frames.
@MelTraX
Looks quite good, it's something that has been requested quite a few times. Could you implement it in the site and send me a patch? (You can find the site in svn https://taspring.clan-sy.com/svn/spring ... ring_blue/)
Or is that beyond you skills? You would have to implement it without breaking the site for non-JavaScript browsers.
Yeah, I can do that..
edit:
Why do you include css and js stuff into the php file? Don't you know how to handle your browsers cache feature?
Don't you even want to try to make a valid page? Currently the validator says it has 57 errors..
I could help you out a bit and fix some stuff.. I would switch to XHTML and let Firefox use its XML engine.. That way you always notice if you make an XHTML syntax error..
Atm I have very little time but that will improve after I'm through with my exams.. I also will continue work on IceUI though and if Phoz doesn't come up with anything, I will make a new ladder page.. We could even integrate it into the main page..
edit:
Why do you include css and js stuff into the php file? Don't you know how to handle your browsers cache feature?
Don't you even want to try to make a valid page? Currently the validator says it has 57 errors..
I could help you out a bit and fix some stuff.. I would switch to XHTML and let Firefox use its XML engine.. That way you always notice if you make an XHTML syntax error..
Atm I have very little time but that will improve after I'm through with my exams.. I also will continue work on IceUI though and if Phoz doesn't come up with anything, I will make a new ladder page.. We could even integrate it into the main page..
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Tim Blokdijk
- Posts: 1242
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 11:18
I decided to just echo the css and js at this time as I ran into some relative path problems while using external files and I also like it for debugging and development.
You have one output text to look at with debugging and I don't like it when the browser uses the cached version when I'm making changes to the css/js files.
This needs to be fixed at some point but for now it works ok.
Validation is also not critical for now IMO, sure I like to have it all valid but as we/I'm still developing the thing it's not something I concern myself with right now. Before the site will go into production (use) I would like to fix the validation problems.
And I will need more reasons to switch to XHTML, just to force myself to write valid code is not going to be worth the effort.
That I don't put much emphasise on those things at this time is not because I don't like it, if you like to do these things (once you have the time) then please feel free to do so.
Integrating Spring league in the site has my (active) support.
You have one output text to look at with debugging and I don't like it when the browser uses the cached version when I'm making changes to the css/js files.
This needs to be fixed at some point but for now it works ok.
Validation is also not critical for now IMO, sure I like to have it all valid but as we/I'm still developing the thing it's not something I concern myself with right now. Before the site will go into production (use) I would like to fix the validation problems.
And I will need more reasons to switch to XHTML, just to force myself to write valid code is not going to be worth the effort.
That I don't put much emphasise on those things at this time is not because I don't like it, if you like to do these things (once you have the time) then please feel free to do so.
Integrating Spring league in the site has my (active) support.
Thanks for clarification.. As I said I won't be active in the next few weeks but after that I will put much time into this and IceUI..
edit: Do you know the Firebug and Web Developer extensions for Firefox? Because your disable CSS and Javascript stuff doesn't look like it.. I'm just asking because you'll love them if you don't know them already..
edit: Do you know the Firebug and Web Developer extensions for Firefox? Because your disable CSS and Javascript stuff doesn't look like it.. I'm just asking because you'll love them if you don't know them already..
I absolutely hate the new website design. The current design is pretty good. It's just slightly cluttered and could do with better newsposts and a new header graphic. Maybe a slightly less neutral colour scheme would be good as well.
The new one has ugly colours, adds more clutter and generally looks like a college website for some sort of nerdy open source linux thing.
The new one has ugly colours, adds more clutter and generally looks like a college website for some sort of nerdy open source linux thing.
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Tim Blokdijk
- Posts: 1242
- Joined: 29 May 2005, 11:18
I hate it when someone uses the word "hate" to describe my work.
If you make the current site less cluttered, add in better news support, a graphic header and a slightly less neutral colour scheme you end up with the new site as it is. (With language and theme support as a bonus)
And it's a site for a nerdy open source Linux thing with a lead dev in University.
So it's right on the money in that aspect.
Now can you give more detailed feedback possibly with examples, you can find the source code/graphics here https://taspring.clan-sy.com/svn/spring/trunk/Site/ if you need it.
Point to other websites that show what you mean if you lack graphics skills.
If you make the current site less cluttered, add in better news support, a graphic header and a slightly less neutral colour scheme you end up with the new site as it is. (With language and theme support as a bonus)
And it's a site for a nerdy open source Linux thing with a lead dev in University.
So it's right on the money in that aspect.
Now can you give more detailed feedback possibly with examples, you can find the source code/graphics here https://taspring.clan-sy.com/svn/spring/trunk/Site/ if you need it.
Point to other websites that show what you mean if you lack graphics skills.
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SwiftSpear
- Classic Community Lead
- Posts: 7287
- Joined: 12 Aug 2005, 09:29
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TheRegisteredOne
- Posts: 398
- Joined: 10 Dec 2005, 21:39
I hate it when people be hating on my feedback.Tim Blokdijk wrote:I hate it when someone uses the word "hate" to describe my work.
If you make the current site less cluttered, add in better news support, a graphic header and a slightly less neutral colour scheme you end up with the new site as it is. (With language and theme support as a bonus)
And it's a site for a nerdy open source Linux thing with a lead dev in University.
So it's right on the money in that aspect.
Well, when I'm making websites I usually just adapt something from OSWD.org. I suppose what I was trying to say with my nerdy linux comment is the current website, and your web design look like technie development pages. It's a bit daunting for people who don't really know what Spring is about. Something with a bit of colour and style might be more inviting. Anyway, here are a few examples of stuff that wouldn't be broadly dissimilar from what we have but is a bit fresher and more stylish.
http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3649
http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3616
http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3515
http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3360
http://www.oswd.org/design/preview/id/3401