Requiem on Spring Community (& -> Ideas for the future)

Requiem on Spring Community (& -> Ideas for the future)

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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SeanHeron
Engines Of War Developer
Posts: 614
Joined: 09 Jun 2005, 23:39

Requiem on Spring Community (& -> Ideas for the future)

Post by SeanHeron »

So - I've been browsing by the Spring Forum ( + Website) every other year or so, but this time it was pretty obvious the community - at least here on this site - is dead.

Ok - requiem in short: Things were nice while they lasted :) !

Anyway, on to ideas. Or mainly one idea:

I think one of the really neat things about the Spring community was the "cross-pollination" of different games + game devs. I mean, I ended up making a game with a guy from across the atlantic that I'd never seen (BobThe Dino). How cool was that :) !

So I've been reading around the last two days, but the first idea and impression I had stuck: Having a place where likeminded people can come together and debate + showcase their games is awesome, and something worth putting time and energy into. Sure these places exist (eg IndieDB, or FreeGameDev), but I think there's an argument to be made for a Libre/Open Source and RTS focused one (ie - lets take the folks from 0AD and such along with us).

Anyway, time for bed here, more from me later,

Regards, Sean.

P.S. Just to be clear: I wasn't sure at first, but I've seen that the Engine itself isn't dead -> The BAR project looks like it has some good impetus, and I'm sure it'll carry the engine along with it at least for a while still.
Last edited by SeanHeron on 17 Nov 2021, 17:37, edited 1 time in total.
Ares
Balanced Annihilation Developer
Posts: 490
Joined: 19 Mar 2011, 13:43

Re: Requiem on Spring Community & -> Ideas for the future

Post by Ares »

Community isn't dead, BA has a 42 player tourney this Saturday. It is the biggest Spring tourney in 15 years. We are just getting started!
SeanHeron
Engines Of War Developer
Posts: 614
Joined: 09 Jun 2005, 23:39

Re: Requiem on Spring Community & -> Ideas for the future

Post by SeanHeron »

Ok, obviously I've put two topics into one thread here :P .

Since my main thrust is actually the "Ideas for the Future", I'll branch that offhere.

But I'm happy to discuss the other point here (Spring Community being dead)!
Last edited by SeanHeron on 17 Nov 2021, 17:34, edited 1 time in total.
SeanHeron
Engines Of War Developer
Posts: 614
Joined: 09 Jun 2005, 23:39

Re: Requiem on Spring Community & -> Ideas for the future

Post by SeanHeron »

On your point: I'd generally agree with you :) .
---> Game communities are strong (perhaps stronger than ever!).
I've not yet gotten into any yet (ie downloaded and played), but eg BAR and Zero-K seem vibrant. (my outside impression - sorry: BA, EvoRTS or Spring '44 , etc. I've not looked into, so couldn't say! Does sound like BA is still going strong from your description).

Infrastructure stuff - ie Autohosts, Lobbyserver etc, all seem to be working well enough as well. My point though is that this forum/site, (and probably the Lobbyserver chat?) as places where people shared what they were working on, asked for feedback, and found each other for projects no longer functions in that manner.
(And to be honest, I'd find it hard to argue otherwise, just looking at inactivity here in the forum...but happy to listen if you have a different view :P ).
raaar
Metal Factions Developer
Posts: 1019
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:17

Re: Requiem on Spring Community (& -> Ideas for the future)

Post by raaar »

Spring rts community isn't dead, it's just fragmented. The most populated games left the official server, ZK and others have their own forums.

We still share the engine, a lot of maps and some widgets across games. Some people hop around and play various games.

The discussion that'd happen on this forum happens on other mediums : other forums, lobby servers, direct messaging, bug trackers, discord.
SeanHeron
Engines Of War Developer
Posts: 614
Joined: 09 Jun 2005, 23:39

Re: Requiem on Spring Community (& -> Ideas for the future)

Post by SeanHeron »

The discussion that'd happen on this forum happens on other mediums : other forums, lobby servers, direct messaging, bug trackers, discord.
Ok, thanks for the pointer. Sounds like it does make things more difficult to track (and perhaps less accessable to newcomers?).

I am starting to register (eg Zero-K forum, looking at getting on Discord - again - for Evo and BAR). I've also noticed quite a few things still get shared. Still, it certainly doesn't paint a good light on the Engine if you happen to come and land here (though I guess not many people do anymore nowadays, as you say, their contact is via games).

I'm thinking about it (and as said, will try to wet my toes), but my feeling remains that there is something lacking :).
raaar
Metal Factions Developer
Posts: 1019
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:17

Re: Requiem on Spring Community (& -> Ideas for the future)

Post by raaar »

A thing I notice is the lack of an easily accessible "active topics" button on the forum header.

Users that are logged in can access it via "quick links" > "active topics", but even then it only shows the latest 7 days.

I think we need the link in a more visible place.

and it should show active threads for latest 3 months, not just a week.
SeanHeron
Engines Of War Developer
Posts: 614
Joined: 09 Jun 2005, 23:39

Re: Requiem on Spring Community (& -> Ideas for the future)

Post by SeanHeron »

I agree that would help - or just have the default view with "most current topics across all boards" (if that's available as an option).

But I think a) - you'd need to make a new thread if you want anyone to notice your suggestion :).
and b) - Dunno if anyone is still going to invest time into stuff here ?
SeanHeron
Engines Of War Developer
Posts: 614
Joined: 09 Jun 2005, 23:39

Re: Requiem on Spring Community (& -> Ideas for the future)

Post by SeanHeron »

SeanHeron wrote: 01 Dec 2021, 10:17 But I think a) - you'd need to make a new thread if you want anyone to notice your suggestion :).
and b) - Dunno if anyone is still going to invest time into stuff here ?
Sorry - didn't want to be discouraging, but I don't see / share your hope of this board being invigorated again without a major overhaul (ie not just of the board, but more generally of the vision/goals + organisation of the people who are so good to host + manage the SpringRTS site [and other infrastructure] ).
raaar
Metal Factions Developer
Posts: 1019
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:17

Re: Requiem on Spring Community (& -> Ideas for the future)

Post by raaar »

SeanHeron wrote: 01 Dec 2021, 10:17 I agree that would help - or just have the default view with "most current topics across all boards" (if that's available as an option).

But I think a) - you'd need to make a new thread if you want anyone to notice your suggestion :).
and b) - Dunno if anyone is still going to invest time into stuff here ?
I think someone fixed it, partially, the quick links now show up even for logged out users.

This website/forum is open source and available on github, and has been updated less than 1 month ago, maybe I should look into it myself.

I think it's pretty good. Many things could be improved by just updating the wiki which doesn't even require coding.
SeanHeron wrote: 05 Dec 2021, 10:13 Sorry - didn't want to be discouraging, but I don't see / share your hope of this board being invigorated again without a major overhaul (ie not just of the board, but more generally of the vision/goals + organisation of the people who are so good to host + manage the SpringRTS site [and other infrastructure] ).
Major overhaul? What'd be the top 5 things you'd change here?

Sometimes relatively simple features can make or break things.

lack of people is a "chicken and egg" problem.
SeanHeron
Engines Of War Developer
Posts: 614
Joined: 09 Jun 2005, 23:39

Re: Requiem on Spring Community (& -> Ideas for the future)

Post by SeanHeron »

Ok, happy to be disproved - and nice to see there's people that care :).

I dig getting into details with you, but I find forum conversations (dragging out over days + weeks :/ ), a little too time consuming for my taste nowadays... (which is why I was asking you about chat).

I agree with you that a lot of the existing infrastructure is actually quite nice + good (eg the forum works well in general, site looks pretty good, Lobby servers seems quite reliable + functional).
Maybe I'm mistaken, but my impression from reading (and listening) around is that there were a number of unfortunate events (though with good intentions on all sides) that for the most part lead to here drying up.
(so my thinking is the underlying conflicts need to be addressed - but I need to address the people themselves in that regard, little point discussing it here I think).

I'm on the Metalfactions Discord now, so hit me up there if you want to keep chatting :) - I've still got Forb, the Spring '44 crew and the Warzone people to say hello to. (I do want to take the time to chat with you still also - just saying might still be a few days till I approach you :P ).
Google_Frog
Moderator
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Joined: 12 Oct 2007, 09:24

Re: Requiem on Spring Community (& -> Ideas for the future)

Post by Google_Frog »

I wouldn't say it was conflict that directly killed the forum. Rather, the forum doesn't really seem to have a purpose anymore. Conflicts had a hand in bringing about this situation, but just resolving the conflicts won't reverse it. It's not even clear what the purpose of the forum would be.

Developers used the forum to talk about new games, maps, coordinate projects, and a bit of engine and lobby development.
  • The engine developers don't develop the engine anymore. Engine dev happens in BAR.
  • The old style one man projects are harder to play because none of ZK, BA or BAR are on the main server. New project development appears to have dried up.
  • There are still similar projects, but all that I am aware of are mods for. Discussion about them happens on the ZK forum and discord.
  • Mapping still exists, but it happens more within the context of a game. Mapping discussion happens on the ZK and BAR discords. Map ideas and concepts are still shared between the communities.
Player communities used to exist on this forum as well, but similar to the dev communities, the players shifted over to their own servers, sites, and discords. There is still overlap between games, it just doesn't happen on this site. The engine/server devs probably could have kept the games around, but it would have required significantly more enthusiasm to accommodate the needs of games that want to present themselves as stable, polished, games (rather than as mods).

Basically, it's sad to lose the creativity of games released around 2010, but I don't think we're going to go back to there via this forum.
SeanHeron
Engines Of War Developer
Posts: 614
Joined: 09 Jun 2005, 23:39

Re: Requiem on Spring Community (& -> Ideas for the future)

Post by SeanHeron »

I guess I owe you a reply (sorry, Christmas and stuff :P ).
but just resolving the conflicts won't reverse it.
Totally agree with that, and don't reckon I thought otherwise at any time.

On top of that, resolving conflicts sure looks harder than I had hoped (ie - I reckon I overestimated my capabilities in that regard).

Still think it'd be nice to have a more "game neutral" spot to talk about fledging (Spring) RTS games, but as I've stated elsewhere, I'm happy to settle in to the ZK-Forums when I do get moving on that front (for now at least).

Thanks for your honest views!
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