Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Various things about Spring that do not fit in any of the other forums listed below, including forum rules.

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mycale
Posts: 1
Joined: 15 Jun 2020, 19:15

Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by mycale »

Hi there

I've downloaded different games like Balanced Annihilation, Phoenix Annihilation, Tech Annihilation and so on. I've got NOTA to work by downloading it through another site.

I tried different combinations of the other games with engine versions and AI but so far the games crash or the AI won't do anything.

Are most of the games dead? Is singleplayer not developed anymore?

Thank you very much.
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ThinkSome
Posts: 335
Joined: 14 Jun 2015, 13:36

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by ThinkSome »

mycale wrote:
15 Jun 2020, 19:21
but so far the games crash or the AI won't do anything.
Once new Springlobby is released (if ever), it will hide all engine-supplied AIs. This means that all the crashing along with most of the "won't do anything" will stop.
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raaar
Metal Factions Developer
Posts: 848
Joined: 20 Feb 2010, 12:17

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by raaar »

Different AIs work on different games.

Metal Factions works with MFAI bots, and there are 3 difficulty levels (note: choose land maps only).

Games are still being developed. I'm actually working on improving MF AI.
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FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
Posts: 6179
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 01:14

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by FLOZi »

I expect BAR has decent single-player experience

https://www.beyondallreason.info
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MasterBel
Posts: 198
Joined: 18 Mar 2018, 07:48

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by MasterBel »

FLOZi wrote:
16 Jun 2020, 19:01
I expect BAR has decent single-player experience

https://www.beyondallreason.info
BAR as an above-average single-player experience, but most of their attention is towards multiplayer at this point.

Most of the love that Singleplayer needs is decent lobby support, anyway. I don't know why the ValidAIs.lua suggestion didn't go anywhere because it seems to me the single biggest problem with singleplayer is the "finding an AI that actually works" conundrum.
AF wrote:I'm open to compromises, I simply disagree that validAIs.lua is a healthy option as it eliminates a lot of academic and hobbyist options that got AI working in the first place
Oh and it also definitely needs a devmode toggle to make sure people can test AIs and play with other peoples' AIs.

linky
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MasterBel
Posts: 198
Joined: 18 Mar 2018, 07:48

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by MasterBel »

mycale wrote:
15 Jun 2020, 19:21
Hi there

I've downloaded different games like Balanced Annihilation, Phoenix Annihilation, Tech Annihilation and so on. I've got NOTA to work by downloading it through another site.
Balanced Annihilation: Best bet is KAIK, Shard Lua, or DAI (if it's a newer version of Balanced Annihilation)
Phoenix: Best bet is KAIK, Shard Lua
Tech Annihilation: I'm not familiar with this flavour
Beyond All Reason/Balanced Annihilation Reloaded: DAI definitely works, I think there are a couple others but I'm not sure which they are.
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ThinkSome
Posts: 335
Joined: 14 Jun 2015, 13:36

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by ThinkSome »

MasterBel wrote:
17 Jun 2020, 02:53
Most of the love that Singleplayer needs is decent lobby support, anyway. I don't know why the ValidAIs.lua suggestion didn't go anywhere because it seems to me the single biggest problem with singleplayer is the "finding an AI that actually works" conundrum.
There is a very simple solution and it is waiting to be released in Springlobby's master branch for half a year now: hide all engine AIs.

Why did validais.lua not go anywhere? Because it is not easily implemented and the immidiate reaction of everyone who wants to work on lobbies is to create a new lobby client instead of contributing on existing ones. The result is that now we have 20 lobby clients out there in various states of disrepair with still new ones in development.

I was told that TASClient actually implemented this and that people liked it, but nobody wants to work in its Pascal codebase.
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MasterBel
Posts: 198
Joined: 18 Mar 2018, 07:48

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by MasterBel »

its Pascal codebase
Wasn't it Delphi? Either way, there are good reasons people have been wanting to rebuild lobbies from scratch. TASClient was possibly the only one that didn't deserve to be abandoned, but afaik it was Windows-only anyway? If I'd not been stuck on Mac I would've given it a go.

Or, wait. https://blog.marcocantu.com/blog/2019-j ... elphi.html

This is really tempting.
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AF
AI Developer
Posts: 20678
Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by AF »

I tried multiple times to compile TASClient back in the day, it was easier to build my own lobby. So I did!

As for validais.lua, people argued and there was very little compromise. It was a very static and unyielding stance by those wanting a whitelist with the prime movers showing no interest in addressing the issues or concerns. tbh it felt like outright hostility, which is why I and a lot of people able to never implemented anything.

Which was weird when the lua AIs they preferred and wanted to whitelist were written by people who only came here because of the very thing they wanted to kill off. I wouldn't consider a springlobby PR as a sign of consensus.


I'd consider the discussion moot and kind of irrelevant now. You don't need a whitelist or a blacklist for AIs. The real solution is to package your game as a game, and don't include broken AIs when you do so. That's exactly what ZK, Evo, BAR, etc have done.

A big multi-game spring install with a shared lobby is a dev setup, and it's outrageous we've managed to attract as many casual players as we did in spite of it. Hemming casual players in that situation was bound to cause problems like this one.
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MasterBel
Posts: 198
Joined: 18 Mar 2018, 07:48

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by MasterBel »

I'd consider the discussion moot and kind of irrelevant now
I wouldn't, not when the major lobby used by most games is still *cough* SpringLobby. Fortunately we're moving away from that. But with even Chobby expected to support multiple games this will still be a concern then.

Also, further discussion on the ValidAis.lua thing should happen in its thread, which is very conveniently linked above.
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AF
AI Developer
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by AF »

Then it seems the solution is not to use SpringLobby and that's being worked on, moot
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triton
Lobby Moderator
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Joined: 18 Nov 2009, 14:27

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by triton »

BAR as an above-average single-player experience, but most of their attention is towards multiplayer at this point.
Well, I would say lot of efforts are made for PvE experience since weeks now.
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FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
Posts: 6179
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 01:14

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by FLOZi »

AF wrote:
18 Jun 2020, 19:20
Then it seems the solution is not to use SpringLobby and that's being worked on, moot
Spring circa 2005 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
Spring circa 2006 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
Spring circa 2007 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
Spring circa 2008 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
Spring circa 2009 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
Spring circa 2010 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
Spring circa 2011 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
Spring circa 2012 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
Spring circa 2013 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
Spring circa 2014 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
Spring circa 2015 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
Spring circa 2016 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
Spring circa 2017 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
Spring circa 2018 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
Spring circa 2019 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
Spring circa 2020 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
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AF
AI Developer
Posts: 20678
Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 11:32

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by AF »

FLOZi wrote:
18 Jun 2020, 22:32
Spring circa 2020 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
How's FloziLobby coming along?
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MasterBel
Posts: 198
Joined: 18 Mar 2018, 07:48

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by MasterBel »

FLOZi wrote:
18 Jun 2020, 22:32
Spring circa 2020 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
This is a symptom of a greater problem: this community really doesn't know how to work collaboratively.

The discussion here between FLOZi and AF is a good example of that. I mean, even just that no one actually tried to hep solve mycale's problem. ThinkSome pointed a finger/did some political campaigning. raaar did some advertising. Granted, FLOZi tried to help. Even I went to campaigning/fingerpointing first. (And am still stuck on that.)

Funny that a discussion about singleplayer has now come to the topic of collaboration.
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FLOZi
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
Posts: 6179
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 01:14

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by FLOZi »

MasterBel wrote:
19 Jun 2020, 08:13
FLOZi wrote:
18 Jun 2020, 22:32
Spring circa 2020 "Lobby sucks; solution new lobby!"
This is a symptom of a greater problem: this community really doesn't know how to work collaboratively.

The discussion here between FLOZi and AF is a good example of that. I mean, even just that no one actually tried to hep solve mycale's problem. ThinkSome pointed a finger/did some political campaigning. raaar did some advertising. Granted, FLOZi tried to help. Even I went to campaigning/fingerpointing first. (And am still stuck on that.)

Funny that a discussion about singleplayer has now come to the topic of collaboration.
You are sadly entirely correct. Your second post is the only one worth being in this thread.
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Google_Frog
Moderator
Posts: 2447
Joined: 12 Oct 2007, 09:24

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by Google_Frog »

@mycale Zero-K could be loosely described what you are looking for. It has inbuilt AIs an a big singleplayer campaign.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/334920/ZeroK/
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Panaer
Posts: 4
Joined: 28 Feb 2019, 13:34

Re: Which TA-derived games work singleplayer

Post by Panaer »

Thank you for sharing!
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