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| ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0005371 | Spring engine | General | public | 2016-10-09 19:33 | 2017-12-01 22:59 | ||||
| Reporter | abma | ||||||||
| Assigned To | |||||||||
| Priority | normal | Severity | feature | Reproducibility | have not tried | ||||
| Status | closed | Resolution | no change required | ||||||
| Product Version | |||||||||
| Target Version | Fixed in Version | ||||||||
| Summary | 0005371: allow replacement of engine trees by game (step towards engine tree removal) | ||||||||
| Description | pro removal: - engine trees look like 90's - several map already use models for trees - its a lot of opengl code con removal: - there are several maps with engine trees: do they need a replacement? | ||||||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||||||
| Checked infolog.txt for Errors | |||||||||
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| Notes |
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jK (developer) 2016-10-10 00:53 |
con: - currently model based trees eat A LOT performance |
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hokomoko (developer) 2016-10-10 01:10 |
^ this |
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raaar (reporter) 2016-10-10 04:43 |
It'd be interesting to have an idea of how many maps use "engine trees". the list of maps I recommend for my game is currently this: http://metalfactions.pt/maps.html does anyone know which have engine trees and which haven't. what would happen if someone played on maps that did have engine trees? |
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abma (administrator) 2016-10-10 09:54 |
sounds like there should be a setting (modoption/engine option/whatever fits best) to use a predefined model as replacement, so performance can be tested / optimized?! |
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silentwings (reporter) 2016-10-10 11:32 |
+1 to keeping engine trees, doing otherwise breaks a tonne of maps + due to perf reasons model trees are not a proper replacement, yet. |
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Forboding Angel (reporter) 2016-10-11 05:24 |
My opinion here doesn't really matter, but I'm all for removal. Evo already uses a specific feature set to replace them with models. If you wanted to keep the functionality, you could use one of the 0ad pine trees as a replacement, but frankly, I feel as though complete removal is best. |
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Jools (reporter) 2016-10-12 15:49 |
I have used many custom trees (eg the AD0 ones), but the problem with them is: i) map unplayable with many of them ii) they are usually out of scale (players like to make them too large). iii) They are more difficult to burn or chop down So conclusion: engine trees are better and more realitic, although they are a bit 90s. |
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Forboding Angel (reporter) 2016-10-12 19:10 |
i) That is a game problem ii) Game problem iii) Game problem On all of these cases you can override the defs and the models with the game. |
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Jools (reporter) 2016-10-13 07:19 |
No, it's not a game problem, unless by game you also mean map. |
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Forboding Angel (reporter) 2016-10-13 07:34 |
No, it's a game issue. Mappers can't account for everything working perfectly, but luckily you can override those things with your game, fixing any potential issues. Especially since assets get reused all the time. If the mapper used spring features, then even better, because all of that stuff is in a single uniform and easy to override place. |
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raaar (reporter) 2016-10-15 06:51 |
I've noticed on some maps, for example, Tangerine, that the tree models are noticeably crappy. Are those engine trees? Is there anything about engine trees that makes them use less resources than replacement trees? If the same models are used, is there any difference? I'm happy that this was changed from "removal", which would break backward compatibilty, with "option to replace". But while you're at it, it might be good to also replace the engine tree models with something a bit more up-to-date, maybe randomly use a few different models too. Also, I'm curious about the knorkediscussion. Imo a degree of negativity can be useful. If he keeps restating the same things over and over, delete only the redundant part. |
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Forboding Angel (reporter) 2016-10-15 11:14 |
1) Yes 2) it's basically a 4 sided sprite, so technically yes. 3) Meh, sure. Doesn't hurt. 4) in the "replace" part, that will be your job. Grab evo had have a look at any map with engine trees. Be amazed. 5) no. :-) |
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Forboding Angel (reporter) 2016-10-15 11:16 |
2) didn't make sense. I meant that it's essentially 2 sprites in an X. Also, iirc they are actually procedurally generated. |
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jK (developer) 2016-10-15 12:04 Last edited: 2016-10-15 12:05 |
you can easily replace engine trees ... just override the featuredefs with your and fine is (yes, you can do so with geo featuredefs, too). but as said this costs a lot performance |
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raaar (reporter) 2016-10-18 06:57 |
I think it's actually 3 sprites, 2 in an X and one in the middle for top view. I wonder what the procedurally generated part actually does. If it's a sprite, there's an image somewhere. it'd be nice to - update the sprites image resolution (but not too much) - instead of a 2 of vertical sprites, use 4 - use a translucent mask to shade trees depending on sampled map colors, add some randomness Something that'd be a good balance between performance and appearance. Some people still play with old computers, or ones with low end GPUs. Someone could post on the forum a set of trees for TA-like games and a replacement gadget. I think EVO's models are somewhat bigger. |
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sprung (reporter) 2017-10-20 13:24 |
Done? https://github.com/spring/spring/commit/7f4ef55f59299dba2c02761ed3727e6758637d32 https://github.com/spring/spring/commit/720bf24f81fa53c3cac79c39b62a76dcbd41d995 |
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Kloot (developer) 2017-12-01 22:59 |
not yet, but will be possible (via the new DrawTrees callin) without killing performance once I get to adding a GL4 Lua interface. |
| Notes |
| Issue History |
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| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2016-10-09 19:33 | abma | New Issue | |
| 2016-10-10 00:53 | jK | Note Added: 0016758 | |
| 2016-10-10 01:10 | hokomoko | Note Added: 0016759 | |
| 2016-10-10 04:43 | raaar | Note Added: 0016760 | |
| 2016-10-10 09:54 | abma | Note Added: 0016762 | |
| 2016-10-10 11:32 | silentwings | Note Added: 0016765 | |
| 2016-10-11 05:24 | Forboding Angel | Note Added: 0016781 | |
| 2016-10-12 15:49 | Jools | Note Added: 0016791 | |
| 2016-10-12 19:10 | Forboding Angel | Note Added: 0016792 | |
| 2016-10-13 07:19 | Jools | Note Added: 0016796 | |
| 2016-10-13 07:34 | Forboding Angel | Note Added: 0016797 | |
| 2016-10-13 21:23 | abma | Summary | remove engine trees => allow replacement of engine trees by game (step towards engine tree removal) |
| 2016-10-13 21:56 | abma | Severity | minor => feature |
| 2016-10-13 21:56 | abma | Product Version | 104.0 => |
| 2016-10-15 06:51 | raaar | Note Added: 0016798 | |
| 2016-10-15 11:14 | Forboding Angel | Note Added: 0016799 | |
| 2016-10-15 11:16 | Forboding Angel | Note Added: 0016800 | |
| 2016-10-15 12:04 | jK | Note Added: 0016801 | |
| 2016-10-15 12:05 | jK | Note Edited: 0016801 | View Revisions |
| 2016-10-18 06:57 | raaar | Note Added: 0016809 | |
| 2017-10-20 13:24 | sprung | Note Added: 0018537 | |
| 2017-12-01 22:59 | Kloot | Status | new => closed |
| 2017-12-01 22:59 | Kloot | Resolution | open => no change required |
| 2017-12-01 22:59 | Kloot | Note Added: 0018670 | |
| Issue History |