I'm not sure if this has already been done, so keep that in mind.

Last time I used an installer for spring there was the option to install rapid. It was unchecked by default.

Without being too mean, I would like to point out how incredibly silly such an option is, and that it should be installed alongside the engine w/o any user interaction.

I keep having to help users who were not fortunate enough or know enough to check said box.

...You may want to reword the topic title. Seeing it in the threads list, I thought you wanted to strip Rapid out of the installer.

@forb:

rapid is installed as default! the installer is an engine installer and rapid is optional ... so this checkbox makes sense for me.

Sometimes the wtf is actually painful. I don't even know how to argue against this kind of stupidity.

Don't misunderstand me. I am not calling Abma stupid (neither abma nor any of the devs are stupid). The reasoning behind his statement is, however, very stupid.

Let me explain it in terms that are no doubt going to piss you off, but apparently you have to be a dickhead to get the most simplistic of points across on these forums.

Rapid is used to install games. Many of us use this system. Giving the user the option of unchecking the box (like the they know what rapid is anyway???), (which will save them a grand total of what... 5 mb of hdd space?) is beyond dumb and enters that ever so familiar land of wtf that is so prevalent on these forums.

Not only is that checkbox a disservice to us gamedevs, it is also a disservice to the users, because then we have to turn around and do what I did on the same day that I made the OP and have the user dl portable, and just unzip the whole thing on top of their spring folder, then delete springsettings.cfg and springlobby.conf

WHICH DEFEATS THE ENTIRE PURPOSE IN THE FIRST PLACE!

**********Hopefully it is crystal clear now**********

Now go ahead and bawww about how much of an asshole I am. I have no idea why I have to repeatedly explain the obvious to developers who supposedly have an IQ 500 points higher than my own. Jesus.

Wouldnt the obvious solution be to add a better description to the checkbox.
Without tutorials rapid is not useable. So if you have to write some guide anyway then you might as well have a note to download the program, in case it is not installed.

I dont :/ Next install I want to uncheck it kkthx.

It's not that difficult, developers with high IQ understand complexity and appreciate the flexibility choices offer as it provides them with control.

It is effectively part of the engine.

@Knorke, springtanks is on rapid. At least, that's how I got it.

WRT that issue, wait for it to finish loading, which will take a long ass time. Rapid gui is shit. The only part of rapid on windows that matters is command line.

@tim, that would be fine if the engine download was only for gamedevs or other developers, but no, you have dumbass end users downloading it. Therefore, all the tools need to be there by default. You don't get to have it both ways.

if (1 + 1 == 2) {
echo "It makes sense";
} else {
echo "It doesn't make sense.";
}

There is no in-between here.

Edit: What does this forum have against tabs anyway?

I actually agree with Forb;

rapid is a tool for Spring as an engine (beyond just the executable) to gather and update content. It should be safe to assume it will always be present.

For those who unchecked it who aren't particularly knowledgable about these things but need ti to follow instructions, can someone post a link to a standalone copy of rapid GUI so they don't have to reinstall from scratch? Considering this is the most rcent topic on the subject, looking here is likely.

Just remove the checkbox. There is no real and tangible reason for that checkbox to exist. Knorke and Abma did their miserable best to manufacture a few reasons, but those arguments fall flat on their face the moment you open your mouth.

Flozi summed it up nicely, and agrees, and he doesn't even like me. That should tell you something about the merits.

i say we shall not remove the checkbox. even if there was no other reason, it has to stay just to prove Forb wrong in his theory that you always get where you want if you are just a big enough ass.
i also propose, that this rule is applied every time from now on, when he is testing this theory of his, and does not accept arguments. (hint to forb: just requesting the opposite of what you want while being an ass would not work, because there is no blind denial)

I dont really care so much about it but instead of removing the checkbox, what is wrong with just making it checked by default?
Or just remove the checkbox in your own game installer.

And making it more obvious that "rapid is a tool for Spring as an engine (beyond just the executable) to gather and update content."
ie the startmenu entries from spring (those were created by running the zk lobby once but i think spring setup creates the same?) look like this:


rename"rapid GUI" to "rapid GUI (game downloader)" and more people will actually click it. Atm I would chose the top most entry "Download Content" which is a link to springfiles.

Imo one has to look what the real problem is.
It is not the checkbox.
With rapid it is not that some people forgett to install it because of some checkbox, it is that even if you install you do not know what to click:
The game list is too long with all the versions and ie even the latest "CA stable" will be outdated. rapid's XTA version is old, some games are not on rapid at all. That are the areas that need improvement.
Also that you have to download maps seperately, so players have to get another dl system to work or go to springfiles.

Sorry, I also agree with Forb on this, and only this issue. Man I feel dirty!

Truth is:
a.) There is no *reasonable* excuse not to install it. If you only have 5mb left on your HDD you're fucked anyway.
b.) Nobody knows what rapid is or why they do/don't need it. You might as well ask if they want "Xyghrh from the Planet Blurg" or not.
c.) Since there's several reasons a user would want rapid (whether they realise it or not) the question becomes equivalent to asking "Do you want a knife?" at a steak house.
d.) Forb can be an arsehole, but he can also be right occasionally.

Of course there is a better option that's common and acceptable. Simply add a choice of "Automatic" and "Custom" installs at the beginning of the install process and put all the confusing stuff in the Custom install. I'm quite sure NSIS handles this in a straightforward way, it's pretty much the norm these days.

I was really nice about it, dumbass, until Abma caused me to have to argue against abject stupidity. Arguments that were painfully obvious and I never should have had to even voice.

Knorke makes a good point about the start menu entires. Those should not be there.

If you guys weren't so busy trying to make enemies, you'd have a lot better time.

Actually, you know what? Fuck you guys. I've had enough.

Let me get this straight...

You respond to this:
with this:
and now you're saying this:?

Forb: Your intentions notwithstanding, 'stupid' is an insult. Calling someone or their ideas 'stupid' will make them sad/angry/annoyed. Sad/angry/annoyed people are less likely to help you.

In my experience, the best way to get something you want done is to be helpful and respectful, to have good arguments, and to be persistent as fuck.

Try that!

now that his own way of being an ass seems not to work, he does the AF*.
improvement!
glory!
with this rate, we make you a respectable forumer in no time! just hold out the pressure a little longer...

ouh no! i am doing the forb! it's like this luke vs vader thing! wuaaaaa! forb is my father!!

* see Wikipedia: doing the AF

--Wikipedia

Dang

I agree with this totally.

Also, mantis #2611.

He be invading no Japanese islands. Put your stillettos and your claws away and quit bitch fighting Hoijui, this isn't the gay quarter