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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2012, 11:17 
AI Coder
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 10:32
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jk I'm not suggesting we change how the navbar looks on small screens. I'm saying I like how it looks on small screens and think it should look that way on bigger screens too.

Basically the reverse/opposite of what you think I'm saying
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2012, 11:33 
Spring Developer
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Joined: 28 Jun 2007, 06:30
Ah I already tested that, but it doesn't look that good, cause you need a dark background for that I wasn't able to produce a nice one in a short timespan.
So a new darker background/colorscheme would be good (even when keeping the menu as is).
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2012, 17:23 
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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abma wrote:
i added as test the wysiwyg extension to the mediawiki. it only shows up, when you login to the wiki + click on "Show RichTextEditor"

http://test.springrts.com/mediawiki/ind ... ction=edit

requested by smoth, forb and some others. ("without i have no desire to write docs").

it seems to be useable, but isn't displayed correctly because of our css changes. so... my suggestion is: wait for feedback and then revert or keep it.


The real question is surely 'what does the output look like' because if it results in garbage, nightmare-to-maintain, markup then its imo a waste of time, no matter how pretty the output to the reader.
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2012, 17:58 
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look at my profile. http://test.springrts.com/wiki/User:Smoth

I did some random blundering on it last night.
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 24 Feb 2012, 02:20 
Evolution RTS Developer
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Why don't you test it before jumping to the conclusion that it would output garbage?
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012, 16:49 
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Joined: 22 Feb 2006, 01:02
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when indenting text with the rtf editor thing, it only indents in the editor textfield. on preview or saving the text is just normal.
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012, 17:37 
AI Coder
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 10:32
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PHPBB is well known already for having apalling markup
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012, 17:45 
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Joined: 08 Dec 2007, 17:39
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AF wrote:
PHPBB is well known already for having apalling markup


So true. It's such a pain to work with.
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012, 18:13 
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things can always be better, sometime things are good enough. I will enjoy years from now when you are forced to make that concession.
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012, 18:53 
Evolution RTS Developer
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
I get tired of hearing people talk. This is an example of what happens when you put wsiwyg in the hands of a wikinub such as myself. I did everything (including installing this) within about 9 hours.

Uses ckedit, same as spring site proposed wiki editor. Please create an account and look at the wiki syntax via the default editor. It is flawless.

HTTP://WWW.wiki.evolutionrts.info
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012, 19:10 
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Not really what I was getting at - a WYSIWYG editor can never produce quality -wiki- markup that meets community conventions, correct use of custom templates etc. Poorly worded before and not explicit about wiki markup vs html, I apologise.
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012, 19:27 
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It can if you specify a strict subset of the available markup and make sure it never interferes with anything outside of that subset. The problem with WYSIWYG editors is that they give too much power, especially where styling is concerned. You know how people make headings in Word Docs by turning them into headings, but some people select text and make it bigger and bold?
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012, 22:13 
Evolution RTS Developer
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FLOZi wrote:
Not really what I was getting at - a WYSIWYG editor can never produce quality -wiki- markup that meets community conventions, correct use of custom templates etc. Poorly worded before and not explicit about wiki markup vs html, I apologise.


Once again, I point at the evo site wiki. All done with wsiwyg, and all correct in standards wiki syntax.

Also, af, stop talking please.

Revert exists for a reason. Flozi, I appreciate that you are scared of someone coming in and ruining your hard work, but why don't you stop being afraid for a moment and understand that all people need is guidance and example? The reason the wiki is so fucked up is because there were never any guidelines for people to follow so people just did whatever the hell they chose to do.

If you just set up some guidelines and more importantly, have pages that follow them!, then people will naturally follow those guidelines. Another thing fucking up the works is the fact that the wiki is shoehorned into the site, with cruddy, hacky css markup to make the whole thing work. People would respond differently if the wiki were using the default look. They would naturally try to make it resemble wikipedia, because that is what they know (and that's exactly what I did on the evo wiki). The result is standards reached.

The idea that people are all of a sudden going to start using nothing but inline styles all over the place is stupid. Most people (despite common belief), aren't abject morons. Additionally, you can speak to them and guide them through how to do documentation. Also, this is why guidelines exist.

You guys are creating an actual problem from one that only exists min your heads. Moreover, explain to me why jk went through the wiki and inline styled all over the place. He certainly didn't use a wsiwyg to do it.

Your argument just landed flat on it's face.

Edit: Hmm, none of you even bothered to look at the dokuwiki editor to see is the syntax was standards compliant (userlist doesn't lie :-)), let me save you some trouble: http://pastebin.com/rB7mSiyP << all done with wsiwyg. I did not flip over to sauce once. (BTW, <note> is a plugin that adds wikipedia style colored alert thingies, just so you know, and it's actually covered here: http://www.wiki.evolutionrts.info/doku. ... ion_syntax )
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 25 Feb 2012, 23:43 
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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It does at least use <span> rather than <font> and correctly uses mediawiki syntax for bold/italics et al. Which answers my original question, though not my follow up concern (templates - but you are quite right that a style/ettiquette guide is needed, knorke has made some steps towards that recently)
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2012, 01:59 
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Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46
yeah that is probably good. Honestly any new content probably needs to be screened and run through. that way we can keep things clean. Been cleaning a few sections from time to time, they had NO issue creating horrible pages in media wiki already.
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2012, 02:01 
Evolution RTS Developer
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Well flozi, i think you might be missing the fact that modded wysiwyg editors (like ckedit) can actually do wysiwyg based off of wiki syntax source, not just html. You keep approaching it as tho the visual is only seen as a result of html markup in the wiki content itself.
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2012, 12:26 
Evolution RTS Developer
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Lol Wikipedia is in the process to switching to a WYSIWYG editor.
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2012, 13:29 
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Forboding Angel wrote:
Well flozi, i think you might be missing the fact that modded wysiwyg editors (like ckedit) can actually do wysiwyg based off of wiki syntax source, not just html. You keep approaching it as tho the visual is only seen as a result of html markup in the wiki content itself.


I think you failed to either read or understand my last post.
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2012, 19:01 
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Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46
ok so we can has or not?
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 Post subject: Re: Spring site testing
PostPosted: 26 Feb 2012, 21:10 
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FLOZi wrote:
I think you failed to either read or understand my last post.


Yar, I misunderstood what you were saying.
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