Get your act together

[AF]

Before I say anything, I won't take onboard anything from Yan, please do not feed the troll.

The fix iirc involved moving the hitsphere of the llt downwards while making it larger, while increasing the hitsphere of the DT if possible.

If I was to take creative license on XTA I would think that the following is how I would manage it:

I would agree that an air start should be more viable, and would probably start by increasing the cost and buildpower of aircons so that they're more in line with kbots, buffing the gunships, and nerfing anti air defences accordingly to prevent massacres.

With com upgrades, I would keep them, however I do not like the current ideology at all, I would want a supcom style upgrades, where you can add an improved nanolathe or a torpedo launcher, aka extending the commander rather than replacing it with a buffed commander. The upgrades should be more tactical and have uses.

I believe the old adage of vehicles strong powerful expensive, kbots cheap weak numerous all terrain. I also think core should reflect its stronger slower more expensive brute force approach more, and arm its nimble speedy numbers approach. People go for these but inevitably water it down after wards in the name of balancing quick fixes.

I would also make sea balance reflect land balance. Why work with a new balancing model when its essentially the same setup as land but with flat ground and a pretty shader making it shimmer and shift?

I would likely pull in the sneaky pete radar tower over from BA for arm, and I'd be tempted to experiment with upgrades to buildings, e.g. improving a factories build speed or adding an weak llt turret.

I'd also renounce the TA heritage. XTA is not OTA, and although a CA style push for all free IP is unrealistic, paying homage to cavedogs design for the sake of it at the cost of gameplay and aesthetics is ludicrous.

[Gota]

LoL yeah let a noob mod your mod guys.

[TheMightyOne]

I would agree that an air start should be more viable, and would probably start by increasing the cost and buildpower of aircons so that they're more in line with kbots

why not, let's see how it works out. (no release before testing though!)

buffing the gunships, and nerfing anti air defences accordingly to prevent massacres.

gunships are epic, they dont need a buff. AA is fine, if an air player wants to get past AA he will, no matter how many flaks you place there. nerfing AA would only make air op imo.

I believe the old adage of vehicles strong powerful expensive, kbots cheap weak numerous all terrain. I also think core should reflect its stronger slower more expensive brute force approach more, and arm its nimble speedy numbers approach.

this is the case but when you hit t2. t1 is just too similar :/

With com upgrades, I would keep them, however I do not like the current ideology at all, I would want a supcom style upgrades, where you can add an improved nanolathe or a torpedo launcher, aka extending the commander rather than replacing it with a buffed commander. The upgrades should be more tactical and have uses.

this was the idea right from the beginning, we just didn't get there yet. the upgrades we have now are just a placeholder.

I'd also renounce the TA heritage.

i wouldn't :/ i started to play spring coz i was looking for TA 2, XTA fits this role and i would like it to stay this way. but that's just me.

[Gota]

I don't think XTA would be able to survive AF as a developer but it would be interesting to watch.

Lalalal check your private messages

[AF]

Can I have banhammer now? shoo yan shoo

I would say a TA 2 should not be a replica of TA with prettier graphics and rebalanced gameplay.

TA 2 as such is a concept that has fewer shackles than the framework we here are working in. For example, if we redid the peewee, people would demand it be the same. We could never get away with a peewee with a new weapon and a slightly different role and a radically different style. We could never get away with scrapping units and introducing new units as critical gameplay options. We could never get away witha dding an entirely new type of unit and eradicating an existing one, e.g. removal of t1 kbots or stuff like forcing the choice of kbots or vehicles, one or the other not both.

Heck, tbh I would throw the krogoth gantry out the window and design a new factory altogether, and allow the construction of replacement commanders, and other uber heavy units, such as the krogoth and all the t2 units, aka a t3 factory that builds the greatest t2 units and what t3 units we already have.

I'd also say that if we are going to have a sea model that relies on strong and expensive units in relation to land, then we need the following:

• Cheap units to provide a path to these larger units
• More unique abilities. Supreme commander does a better job than we do with submarines that surface and have weak lasers, and frigates with false radar blips
• All ships and cruisers should be able to walk/drive onto land, uber giant battleships probably not ( there has to be some kind of cost ), and tiny cheap ships should be able to do it ( but be vulnerable when walking )

I would also say that I would add the random faction to XTA, as well as an expansion of cloaking and stealthing tech under arm. Scouting is important and should be used, if only because scouts are units and they're cheap and have uses other than scouting if only because they generate radar blips.

I would also think that hammers should be rebalanced in their usage. I would give them a weaker antibase high traj weapon and a fast fire ballistic weapon akin to the fido but balanced to target t1 units, expensive heavyweights where you would always want to mix one or two in, but if you can field a swarm you would have been better off investing in a t2 lab


A note that this is all me speculating, and that an emergency release from me would not include all of this, these are just my views

[manolo_]

I would agree that an air start should be more viable, and would probably start by increasing the cost and buildpower of aircons so that they're more in line with kbots, buffing the gunships, and nerfing anti air defences accordingly to prevent massacres.

why? airstart was always tricky and risky, it was a supporting role

With com upgrades, I would keep them, however I do not like the current ideology at all, I would want a supcom style upgrades, where you can add an improved nanolathe or a torpedo launcher, aka extending the commander rather than replacing it with a buffed commander. The upgrades should be more tactical and have uses.

i suggested that a loooooong time ago (e.g. eco-com, fighting com,...), but i would be really hard to balance

I would also make sea balance reflect land balance. Why work with a new balancing model when its essentially the same setup as land but with flat ground and a pretty shader making it shimmer and shift?

and how do u want to balance land to sea

I would likely pull in the sneaky pete radar tower over from BA for arm, and I'd be tempted to experiment with upgrades to buildings, e.g. improving a factories build speed or adding an weak llt turret.

wtfU Can't Touch This

I'd also renounce the TA heritage. XTA is not OTA, and although a CA style push for all free IP is unrealistic, paying homage to cavedogs design for the sake of it at the cost of gameplay and aesthetics is ludicrous.

mmmh, lets see

[TheMightyOne]

AF, now you are talking about tastes. I'm very conservative when it comes to changes. We don't want a new XTA, we want our XTA to get fixed. That's it.

[AF]

There's a difference between what AF would like, and what needs fixing. Distinguish! DISTINGUISH!!!!! DISTINGUISH I SAY!!!!

Now aside from putting in lolUI, replacing the core nanotower with the BA nanotower to fix the borkedness, what else!!!!!!!

As for my speculation:

The advantage of sea is that it would be able to traverse sea. Sea is sort of like a minigame unto itself atm, it needs to be brought into the fold conceptually rather than just rebalanced.

As for air, it can still be a supporting role, its just that going eagle isnt a feasible strategy right now as anybody with kbots will just waltz over with a jethro or two and a swarm of rockos with the commander, once the commanders gone, the aircraft cant deal with the tier 1 bots/veh

[Jools]

i wouldn't :/ i started to play spring coz i was looking for TA 2, XTA fits this role and i would like it to stay this way. but that's just me.

No, it's not just you. This was exactly the reason I started to play XTA, this year in February. It's because the legacy of OTA carries with it the legitimacy of the unit balancing. There are enough experimental mods out there, but there is just one TA.

[AF]

Well would you think that TA 2 would do a bit more than copy OTA with higher poly models and a 3d engine? If so why bother with XTA at all?

We should make TA2 not TA1 redux, we shouldn't be remaking the original pixel for pixel identically when we've already thrown OTA balance out the window.

[babbles]

evolution not revolution?

I cba re-reading everything so I'll just talk about what I can remember.

The thing you spoke about with the scrapping krog gantry may work, possibly having golly, sumo and krog in one but replacement comms is a no...just...no

I heard lolui mentioned, if you do include it I will burn you. <_<

nerfing comm - gtfo, saying that, I'd keep the original morph as it is, but change it to move into the specialised ones, but I'd like the self repair option to remain at higher levels

I prefer sea being different, I mean, not having it the polar opposite to land, but I don't want the land model/style being applied to the sea one, it's meant to be compeletly different imo

[AF]

Id quite like the commander reverted back to pre-morph stats and then implement the desired upgrading mechanics.

As for rebuildable commanders, I think that would be best implemented as a lobby option, eitherway the ideas I had for a new gantry would take elements of the old but would overall be a new style

And yes, evolution not revolution

[manolo_]

rebuildable (=ressurectable?) com, no way, but im open for a real lvl3 (also for arm, with new turrets and stuff)

[AF]

t3 imo would be a streamline, e.g. generic turrets which roll all the others into one at little higher than t2 stats, so on, so t3 would be smaller than t2 by virtue of being multipurpose efficient and more useful, aswell as helping extend the game by helping to manage the end game economies and strategic base management and handling of large numbers of units

[mongus]

i wouldn't :/ i started to play spring coz i was looking for TA 2, XTA fits this role and i would like it to stay this way. but that's just me.

No, it's not just you. This was exactly the reason I started to play XTA, this year in February. It's because the legacy of OTA carries with it the legitimacy of the unit balancing. There are enough experimental mods out there, but there is just one TA.

Into this line, i like the ota legagy that xta bears.

I like traditional modding.

While "idea shower" is nice, changing the mod too much into some direction does not fit what i want from xta. (for some other mods its key, and its excellent and the way to go.)

Im still fighting some "lightly" done changes, that affect alot the gameplay.

So, you would understand if i see your "evolution" a liiiiiittle over the top.
While some other mods have gone the ways you describe, xta has not for some reasons.

I rescue some issues that have been exposed in this thread, as the commander morph, and strongly suggest to be split, and discussed separately, because we needed that talk anyways, and not just "swallowed" down into the "evolution" thing.

Xta is a classic.

Some of your proposal is interesting and has potential.
Make a forge!, would pwn, i would love to test it when its working.
But dont take xta into some other shape/thing its not intended to be in the first place.

[AF]

XTA is nothing like OTA, we've all forgotten this.

Nor does XTA bear the legitimacy of TA unit balancing, if anything it is a perversion of TA unit balancing by being a fork of a fork of OTA, and that was before we started porting it to spring!!!

[mongus]

eXtended Total Annihilation.

Its basically ota rebalanced, plus few units and some more enfasis on energy resource management/use.

For me is like OTA fixed. not more. no need to refix.

Is what most ppl who know ota say about it.

Although your project seems to go other ways, which is cool.


Perversion, huuuhhh.... er.. ?.. ... perversion... perverted balancing... does not compute.


Its said xta was based in UH, but you cant really see UH into it, and not sure if its true.
It was based in switech's thats for sure. which were fixes to the engine and some script fixes. ...

sure you can fork something from it again!


Now.. some of your ideas posted here, i like too.
But i always saw it like another (new) mod.

[AF]

XTA is so far removed form TA, it just shares the units and weapon sfx really, even of which some have changed majorly. We don't realise just how far we've changed it.

[Neddie]

eXtended Total Annihilation.

Its basically ota rebalanced, plus few units and some more enfasis on energy resource management/use.

For me is like OTA fixed. not more. no need to refix.

Is what most ppl who know ota say about it.

Which is what most people who play XTA say about it. A larger population of people never chose to migrate from OTA to XTA and thus Spring.

But I agree with your primary point - XTA doesn't need a radical new perspective on balance, though it might need some brush ups, particularly in the water.

[Tribulex]

LoL yeah let a noob mod your mod guys.

GTFO YOU DONT EVEN PLAY XTA WE DONT WANT YOU AND YOUR TROLLAGE YAN.

I kind of like the tactical upgrades idea from supcom. It would be cool to morph a torpedo asslauncher or something like that when you do a sea start. I think it should be tested, becuase it may change the gameplay too much. However, it is key that the commander play an important role in the battle. He is the ultimate combat machine, and should be useful in the beginning as well as in the end of the game.

It would be lolz to give him a little bubble shield upgrade rofl.