You obviously didn't look to see what I did. The vast majority of you won't even notice a difference.

If the balance was that fragile to begin with, then it wasn't balanced at all.

@google =D

Well, I am not so much into that unit tweaking stuff. You seem to be an absolute expert regarding that stuff because you are into that since so many years. So please excuse my following naive approach to that:

So, the Wiki says acceleration is this:

and maxVelocity is this:


So, a unit's speed is measured in e/f (elmos per frame). The flash accelerates at 0.05 e/f^2 to a maximum speed of 3.5. So it needs 70 frames to reach full speed, yes? AFAIK spring's simulation runs at 30fps (or 25?). So a flash needs 2,33 seconds to accelerate to full speed. Where am I wrong?

You aren't wrong vbs, it's gross exaggeration aimed at making a point. Those 2 seconds are enough to cause the pathfinder to lose it's mind, especially when you consider that if a unit is doing anything besides going perfectly straight it is braking and accelerating constantly, which also makes the pathfinder go nuts.

Moreover then you have to take into account the 2 seconds it takes to come to a stop. That's 4 seconds worth of fail and suck.

Yes.

Time to divulge a little secret though: in older Spring versions (those where the "pathing" was considered "good") the acceleration and brakerate tags were actually interpreted incorrectly, with the effect that units could change their speed much more easily than what was supposed to be allowed by the raw tag values. More recent Spring releases however do implement the physics the right way (effectively giving units more inertia, combined with proper turninplace=false behavior) so players whine about there being "less control over units" and "declines in pathing", yet at the same time they think setting values that better reproduce old engine behavior (which is what FA's proposal comes down to, not that he had a clue) will "change the game into something else" and "is not a solution". This is why their opinions are worthless to those in the know.

Unbelievable... Why do I bother to stick up for you if all you can ever do is be a jerk, kloot?

so kloot, given this information, the pathing "sucks(their words not mine)" for ba because the values need to be updated to reflect how they used to be interpreted? can you give an equation to alter the BA values to reflect something similar to the old values? that way I can do some code to output updated untidefs with values making the ba players happy?

Still doesn't seem to affect most things. Units still clump, get stuck, and go through or bounce off buildings.
I'd say the biggest issue with current pathing is that units don't respect each others footprints, neither those of other units nor buildings.


Interesting info about the accel/brake tags from Kloot though. Those ratings probably should be adjusted now that we finally know of this... You got any other critical bits of info that would help us find judge which issues are fixable modside and which are engine faults?
And interesting that you say we now have proper turninplace = false behavior, wasn't turninplace = true changed much more to match how it's supposed to work if judging by the name? Even if the old turninplace = true had its pros over both of the current values.

this in the current release?

Current release is near meaningless if devs keep up with "release early release often" paradigm.

And at any rate, any tweaking of stats is a bandaid compared to direct comparisons with the old code.

Huh? how would that make it meaningless?

I was asking if someone could find out the number difference/equation difference in the OLD CoDE so I could correct the values.

Johannes is not really wrong..unless you didn't get enough praise as a child, there is no reason to assume someone is programming for your praise rather than their own interest. Of course devs are good guys but there's lots of stuff you don't see happen that never gets praised too. What i'm saying really is that it's an ungrateful job. People that stay committed are used to getting more crap than praise.

I don't follow the first part but yeah.

A programmer's best praise is that they don't have to revisit something. It is all we get, at least professionally that is.