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 Post subject: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 14:44 
AI Coder
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 10:32
Location: Cookieland
Since we can no longer use the TA story and faction names, I propose we do the next best thing.

Looking here:

http://darkstars.co.uk/2007/prometheus-grounds-ta/


Or more specifically, here:

http://itchstudios.com/psg/ta/ta.htm

We see he doesn't just have unit concept art, he has a storyboard of a reimagining of TA:

Image

He has 3 images like the above complete with scene descriptions of what should happen.

I suggest we take this as a starting point, but change the faction names, and refer to the previous war as 'the great war' and leave the details vague ( useful for any campaigns we may try to build ).

Niklas has always been happy to let us use his artwork in the past, and if asked I'm sure he'd let us use these, possibly even make us some new artwork if we're super nice.
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 15:05 

Joined: 09 Sep 2007, 20:05
Story is only really needed if we have single player, which I don't see anyone making. Or if we have something like planetwars, I'm not 100% certain but I recall the 0K lads being verbal in not wanting us to take it (this may have changed, dunno, things seem less venomous now that 0K is getting the playtime it deserves).

Sorry for being a debbie downer and these points don't mean you shouldn't be discussing the issue, so feel free to ignore me and carry on.
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 15:08 
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 10:32
Location: Cookieland
Just because multiplayer is the only thing visible in the lobby, doesn't mean there's no singleplayer, you'd be surprised. Most people will not go online and do multiplayer, and thus will never become visible.

It's also laughable to argue that the story has had no bearing on balance, gameplay, or the evolution of TA and its forebears in multiplayer, or that it makes no difference in attracting players or generating content.

A story is a very effective marketing tool.
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 15:11 
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Joined: 06 Sep 2010, 21:59
I like it :wink: and agree with the marketing tool, it is all about teasing and it is really important for new players imo.


Last edited by marciolino on 04 Jan 2012, 15:12, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 15:12 

Joined: 17 Sep 2008, 03:36
Location: your imagination
PW should be free to take, it is all open source anyway. Licho actually put in time to configure the first PW some ~3 years ago for BA, and called for some BA players to help as he didn't know exactly what to do for it. It didn't happen because no one volunteered.

Later when people asked why there was no BA PW, I think he or quantum joked that PW was coded to intentionally break with BA, and lots of people took it seriously, and minor drama ensued.

AF wrote:
A story is a very effective marketing tool.

+1

Even if it just comes down to being a blurb on the website it is something helpful and nice.
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 15:25 

Joined: 09 Sep 2007, 20:05
AF wrote:
Just because multiplayer is the only thing visible in the lobby, doesn't mean there's no singleplayer, you'd be surprised. Most people will not go online and do multiplayer, and thus will never become visible.


What I said was that there is no working single player (as in campaign or missions or even tutorial missions) in the works for BAR and I see no one working on it. I would be very happy if there was, I have talked to beh about this and feel that satiriks sp interface is very snazzy, but at the moment, no one (including me) is volunteering to work on missions and campaign and tuts.

I honestly think that if BAR would get a launch with a working, albeit small SP campaign and a bunch of tut missions (plus a stable and good looking lobby, a non-buggy spring main, ect.), it would have the potential of getting a very large playerbase - with a lot of it staying in SP but enough trickle to multi.
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 15:27 
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 10:32
Location: Cookieland
Indeed I wish the likelihood of a campaign were greater.

Although Sins of a Solar Empire has no campaign but its story does well ( it does need more of it mind )
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 15:31 

Joined: 09 Sep 2007, 20:05
AF wrote:
Indeed I wish the likelihood of a campaign were greater.

Although Sins of a Solar Empire has no campaign but its story does well ( it does need more of it mind )

My brother just installed it and was mighty puzzled at there being no campaign, I had to use the Google to calm him.
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 15:42 
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Joined: 14 Sep 2004, 10:32
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Just think how many people are panicking over BA

"There's no campaign?!?! Lord help us, where's the storyline thatll tell us where to look. NOOO I CANT FIND THAT EITHER GNNNEEEUAAAAAARRRRGHHHHH"
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 16:11 
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Joined: 04 Jan 2011, 20:00
I'm not pro a BAR story effort because of several reasons.

If you look to all units it becomes clear, none are humanly operated.
Yes, some units have human characteristics like the commander caries your name, and some cannons and tanks resemble things we are familiar with. But even all of those lack designs/features that show that humans are operating it.
Therefore the story will fail. I do not want or even can get emotionally involved into the minds of robitica.
I think the original TA story is a laugh too. Never was curious and when got to the story behind it... it turned out to be just as computernerdish as I imagined it.

Even if you have an acceptable story. BA already lacks developers who can update/improve it seriously enough and most updates occur on the fly and the (real) testing occurs when it's released. (my perception)

Creating a single-player campaign is one thing. Keeping it updated/working like it's suppost to be is almost too unreal.


But sure... I'm all for making a short 'campaign' that prepares you for the multiplayer games is very wanted. But more in the sens of tutorials. If this fairly 'easy' thing works out well enough. Then start thinking about a real single-player campaign. (that i'm still not personally desire)


Simply put: Don't get too exited about it yet. BA isn't ready for it. (and I doubt it ever will be due to it's nature)


Last edited by Floris on 04 Jan 2012, 16:24, edited 4 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 16:16 
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Joined: 26 Oct 2007, 15:21
Floris wrote:
BA already lacks developers who can update/improve it seriously enough and most updates occur on the fly (my perception).

Fuck you.
You are one of the worthless pieces of junk floating around here, who not only doesn't ever contribute, he feels his opinion and taste is extremely well refined and should be heeded no matter what. You are backseat/armchair everything.
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 16:45 

Joined: 21 Oct 2008, 23:43
Location: Ohio, USA
I like that story, it reminds me a lot of the story from Freelancer because there was some ancient war in some distant place, but the story picks up hundreds (or thousands) of years from then with a splinter of one of the original factions.

For more inspiration, freelancer opening video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0b8FqHe6gI
Extended opening video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsWPFUzxgRU
The second video is the "whole" opening, including the aliens. The part with the aliens wasn't shown in the opening movie that shipped with the game because you discovered it through gameplay.

The only problem with the story I read is that we really don't care about these crab people. Do they matter at all really? The con are fine though.

Edit: BTW, this is all coming from someone who never played the original TA and has never had a clue what its story actually was.
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 17:40 
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Joined: 08 Dec 2007, 17:39
Location: UK - England
I quite like that story and concept too. And I do feel it's important there is a story and that we get it right. More than anything, a good story provides a general guideline and backbone on which we base other content.

Trying to think of a mission for a campaign out of the blue is very hard but given a story and a scenario, it becomes a lot easier to create a specific battle-field event.

Although, I do agree that it would be very hard to keep any missions made using mission maker up to date with the latest engine and BA releases. When me and Kaiser started planning a campaign for ZK, it become apparent very quickly that it would be silly due to development of ZK. Our campaign would be out-of-date and non-functional within a week.

I would still be happy to help make missions for a campaign for this BA-Remake, provided its core models/gameplay/balance remained the same and it wasn't updated every month to such a huge degree that it rendered all the missions unusable. I would be happy to update them, say, two or three times a year but beyond that, it's too much work.
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 18:23 
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Joined: 26 Oct 2007, 15:21
I would be extremely grateful if you decided to make a mission. We arent looking at anything special here, just 1-3 missions so we can put an X in that checkbox. If you need any custom maps/modside stuff dont hesitate to ask. Core gameplay and balance is pretty much static.
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 18:28 
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Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46
so a guy walks into a BAR
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 18:29 
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Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46
Beherith wrote:
I would be extremely grateful if you decided to make a mission. We arent looking at anything special here, just 1-3 missions so we can put an X in that checkbox. If you need any custom maps/modside stuff dont hesitate to ask. Core gameplay and balance is pretty much static.

What is wrong with zwzsg's missions and menu?
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 18:37 
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Joined: 16 Nov 2004, 13:08
AFAIK, TFC didn't like that my skirmish menu used only KAIK without offering the choice, nor that I merged with chicken.
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 18:48 
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Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46
*sighs* people need to let the chickens stuff be merged.. christ..

Also guys, no one cares that TA unit names are used.. Who cares if something is named pewee or assault kbot.. well maybe the kbot part but that can go to Assault Robot.. AR is fine... besides minor shit like that there is no IP issue.

The only issue with ba is using ta content, content which by taking it out of OTA violates the EULA of Total annihilation.

Otherwise ba is NOT ta enough. Spring plays very differently from TA not that any of you acknowledge that hell most of you never played TA as evident by your reactions to gunmetal or your almost religious crying about metal spots having inconsistent values.

There was a big war about the human condition. The war has gone on so long few remember why it started. All that is known now is Man vs Machine and the bitter millennium of war. Humanity is locked in a war with a remarkably human like machine army. Human kind versus machine, all mankind knows is war.(written from the arm perspective of the war)

done, now go back to arguing about whether the flash should start firing with the left or right barrel.
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 18:55 
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Joined: 04 Jan 2011, 20:00
I'll try not to take offence anyway....



The story tells you the commander hits a planet and then lives on. Ingame the commander is very fragile and not all that powerfull. I find it hard to see the correlation between ingame (physics) and the storyline. Although the storyline with those drawlings is a really nice try.
I don't say campaigns are bad, but it will be very, very hard to close the gap between the actual gameplay and the storyline.
If you look at what resources are availible. (tools, knowledge, time, persistence/dedication, amount of semi-proffessial game-developers)


Beherith, I get the impression you also even seem to know it by the following words: "I would be extremely grateful if you decided to make a mission. We arent looking at anything special here, just 1-3 missions so we can put an X in that checkbox."

Ofcource it's just a start, and better than nothing, but I don't see all the fanfare playing yet or anytime soon.

Maybe I'm this pessimistic and saying this all because it's presented like a cute pony that shits rainbows and will make everything right for BAr. I'm just trying to be realistic and give some remarks....
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 Post subject: Re: BAR story
PostPosted: 04 Jan 2012, 19:40 
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Joined: 02 Sep 2011, 19:09
Ok, how about this:

Advanced RISC Machine (ARM) architecture vs. Intel Core microarchitecture

In the early XXI century, 2 competing CPU architectures eliminate all competition, except one another, planting the seeds for future millenias of hatred and interstellar total war, blah, blah...

Hereby I request adding Intel Inside ® logo to Core commander's texture.
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