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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2012, 18:30 
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Quote:
but it had the same effect before canAttackGround existed


:lol: 5 years later and people still hadn't noticed I split those tags, it seems. (And quite frankly though I suspected I removed it from toairweapon when i created canAttackGround I wasn't 100% sure myself)
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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2012, 19:39 
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that's cause the rest of us were doing it correctly and using the tag outside of *A
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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 06:20 
Cursed Zero-K Developer
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Sorry, I must have gotten that misconception from somewhere when I first started modding, as well as Forb.
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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 06:51 
Evolution RTS Developer
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
No carp, you didn't. It's because only target category does not block fps control and shooting the weapon at enemy ground units.

Without toairweapon:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Also, smoth, I use VTOL for aircraft category. There is nothing wrong with that. VTOL stands for "vertical take-off and landing", that is what aircraft in spring are.

toairweapon makes fps firing not work at all. This is why everyone used it. Because we had people like googlefrog testing out games and being a dickhead and fpsing rapid fire aa guns and using them to lolpwn everything.

Which actually was very useful testing. I found far more exploits when google frog was playing than at any other time.


Last edited by Forboding Angel on 09 Feb 2012, 10:15, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 07:14 
Evolution RTS Developer
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Image

This is what happens when toairweapon is enabled.

NO TARGETING RETICLE
NOTICE WEAPON IS CONTINUALLY "AIMING"


Geeee.


*************

Tired of this shit. The negative sun bug affected mainly ati users. I never had a problem with it. Allow me to dig up a thread where the problem was reported and no one could figure it out (until maelstrom clued me in that negative sun values caused people to crash randomly).

Goddamnit. Can't find the pathways map thread. It was like my second thread I ever made on this board. Was from 2005 iirc.

Here are some related links:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=5080
viewtopic.php?t=5563&highlight=delta+siege

It was a very real and big bug at one point in time. Kloot, how long have you been here? How long have any of the current devs been here (Just tobi iirc)? Any from the 2005/2006 era? JC was aware of the bug's existence, however, it was pretty well known that it happened without rhyme or reason and according to the code it should not have happened at all.

Many many theories as to the reason. My own were ATI + drivers.

However, it doesn't happen anymore, so lets all be happy and rejoice.
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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 16:45 
Spring Developer

Joined: 08 Oct 2006, 15:58
FA: key phrase "whether in FPS mode or not".

Quote:
It's because onlytargetcategory does not block fps control


Yes, it does*. But definitely don't take my word for it, set toAirWeapon = false and onlyTargetCategory = "VTOL" (or any other valid category string) and find out for yourself that this produces exactly the same situation as http://www.imagebam.com/image/951c39173852516.

* preceding statement invalid for Spring versions >= 86.0

======

Regarding the rest, I've been here long enough to know that neither jc nor tobi were ever convinced the sundir reports showed anything more than a weak correlation with one of the zillions of actual confirmed crash-bugs that existed at the time. Just for fun though, supposing there really was a causal in-engine relation between negative lighting directions and people crashing (and not some obscure driver problem which would make it impossible to track down unless you have a surviving PC/OS configuration from that era), here's what to do if you _really_ care and want to prove them wrong ex post facto:

1) get the most recent release of Spring for which you think these crashes were still happening (http://springrts.com/dl/ has all builds between 0.40 and 0.72) and distribute it with debug symbols
2) grab one of the old maps that crashed and make an exact copy of it with ONLY its name changed and all minus-signs removed from its sundir
3) ask volunteers to test both map versions with (1) in a grand community experiment and see who crashes when
4) laugh in my face if the same set of people crash consistently on the original map but not the copy and their stacktraces conclusively point to any code at all involving the original's sundir 8)
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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 18:15 
Evolution RTS Developer
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Onlytargetcategory vtol was set in ALL of the above screenshots.

The only thing that changed was me commenting out toairweapon for the first set of shots (and commenting out "unbind c" in engine_hotfixes.lua gadget )

For those of you who insist that blocking fps shooting was not the intent of toairweapon, how do you KNOW?

All anyone has done is a grep of the source. Greps do not always tell you the whole story.

Do you " [b]know[/b] " are are you " [b]assuming[/b] " based upon the code you have seen?


Last edited by Forboding Angel on 09 Feb 2012, 19:45, edited 3 times in total.
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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 18:21 
Evolution RTS Developer
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http://evolutionrts.googlecode.com/svn/ ... turret.lua

Quote:
-- UNITDEF -- EAATURRET --
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

local unitName = "eaaturret"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

local unitDef = {

buildCostEnergy = 0,
buildCostMetal = 20,
builder = false,
buildTime = 7,
canAttack = true,
canstop = "1",
category = "NOTAIR",
corpse = "ammobox",
description = [[Dedicated Anti-Air Flak Turret - Damagetype: Explosive :: Armortype: Armored Building

Requires +2 Power]],
energyStorage = 0,
energyUse = 0,
explodeAs = "MEDIUM_BUILDING",
footprintX = 5,
footprintZ = 5,
icontype = "defense",
idleAutoHeal = .5,
idleTime = 2200,
maxDamage = 400,
maxSlope = 60,
maxWaterDepth = 0,
metalStorage = 0,
name = "Copperhe(a)d",
noAutoFire = false,
objectName = "eaaturret2.s3o",
radarDistance = 0,
selfDestructAs = "MEDIUM_BUILDING",
sightDistance = 500,
smoothAnim = true,
unitname = "eaaturret",
yardMap = "ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo ooooo",
sfxtypes = {
pieceExplosionGenerators = {
"deathceg0",
"deathceg1",
},

explosiongenerators = {
"custom:gdmcannon",
"custom:needspower",
},
},
sounds = {
underattack = "unitsunderattack1",
select = {
"turretselect",
},
},
weapons = {
[1] = {
def = "antiairgunflak",
onlytargetcategory = "VTOL",
},
},
customParams = {
needed_cover = 1,
death_sounds = "generic",
twokhotkey = 'a',
RequireTech = "2 Power",
armortype = "armoredbuilding",
normaltex = "unittextures/lego2skin_explorernormal.png",
helptext = [[Anti-Aircraft Turret

Dedicated Anti-Air Flak Turret

Damagetype: Explosive

Armortype: Armored Building

+500 Line of Sight

+1500 Range

Requires:

+2 Power]],
},
buildingGroundDecalDecaySpeed=30,
buildingGroundDecalSizeX=8,
buildingGroundDecalSizeY=8,
useBuildingGroundDecal = true,
buildingGroundDecalType=[[eaaturret_aoplane.dds]],
}


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

local weaponDefs = {
antiairgunflak = {
accuracy = 1,
areaOfEffect = 200,
avoidFriendly = false,
avoidFeature = false,
ballistic = true,
collideFriendly = false,
collideFeature = false,
CylinderTargetting = true,
burnblow = true,
endsmoke = "1",
energypershot = 0,
explosionGenerator = "custom:xamelImpact",
energypershot = 7.5,
fireStarter = 80,
id = 1,
impulseFactor = 3,
interceptedByShieldType = 4,
name = "AA Cannon",
pitchtolerance = "500",
range = 1500,
reloadtime = 0.5,
renderType = 4,
soundHit = "explode2",
soundStart = "flakgun_shoot.wav",
startsmoke = "1",
tolerance = 500,
turret = true,
toairweapon = true,
canAttackGround = false,
weaponVelocity = 5000,
customparams = {
damagetype = "explosive",
},
damage = {
default = 75,
},
},
}
unitDef.weaponDefs = weaponDefs


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

return lowerkeys({ [unitName] = unitDef })

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 22:18 

Joined: 17 Mar 2009, 00:20
Forb, AA guns should make default damage 0, and set damage to air units by armor class, then fpsing the aa it would be useless because the gun will do 0 damage to everything thats not on AA armor class like airplanes.

Is one thing i fixed in old Tech Anni, stat flaks sometimes were cover by hlt or doomsday because they tall, when enemy air were close sometimes flak aa hitting buildings and doing the damage vs them as default damage was 1200. so does 1200 damage vs everything and i set that to 0 damage and fixed it
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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 22:19 

Joined: 17 Mar 2009, 00:20
Armor class is really important and should be well used thats why it exist for things like this
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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2012, 22:21 
Content Developer
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Joined: 13 Jan 2005, 00:46
not all of the games do armor classes.
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PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 03:46 
Evolution RTS Developer
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Senna wrote:
Armor class is really important and should be well used thats why it exist for things like this


Senna, spring's armor class system is lol. I use smoth's uber lua based armor system of awesomeness.

Also, fuck that, I shouldn't have to. It's a bug, and it needs to get fixed.

Though I have fixed it via gadget anyway, but still, the point remains.
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PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 21:56 

Joined: 17 Mar 2009, 00:20
Forboding Angel wrote:
Senna wrote:
Armor class is really important and should be well used thats why it exist for things like this


Senna, spring's armor class system is lol. I use smoth's uber lua based armor system of awesomeness.

Also, fuck that, I shouldn't have to. It's a bug, and it needs to get fixed.

Though I have fixed it via gadget anyway, but still, the point remains.



spring armor can be crappy but it does the work, is that what its important, and whats the bug with the armor class? doesnt show the real damage on units stats widget?
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PostPosted: 29 Feb 2012, 23:51 
Evolution RTS Developer
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Joined: 17 Nov 2005, 02:43
Senna, if you want to talk about armor systems and classes, start a new topic.
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