Maximum Annihilation V1.1

[smoth]

maybe you should try not using it and see if the shit works.

[Dream Focus]

Why do the missile shooting weapons no longer hit ground units? That doesn't seem to make any sense at all.

If a tank was coming to destroy you, wouldn't you fire an anti-air missile at it if you had nothing else to use? In the original Total Annihilation it just gave a great bonus if a missile hit an aircraft, but they able to damage ground units too.

[Pressure Line]

why not ask that of AA and all its other descendants? in that its even more insane,where*some* of the missile units can shoot at ground ,but some cant.

IOW ,its because the game is made like that. deal or move on.

[Master-Athmos]

The problem is that to be somewhat effective the AA units have to have a good weapon range. To my mind that's why it's not a good idea to make them fire ground too because if you do it that way things end up like in e.g. BA where the T1 missile trucks are used as artillery rather than anti-air units. They're not just good against the lighter turrets but even can deal good amounts of damage against standard close combat units by simply running away from them (and into own turret firerange safety) and also are good at harassing the Commander. This imo works against the entire concept consisting of "melee", artillery and anti-air units. It also makes especially T1 air quite useless as the players immediately won't just have a nice artillery unit around but an anti-air one too...

Not making them fire at ground units too actually adds some more depth as your enemy won't have a nice artillery with guided weapons that can hit moving targets too just as planes around all the time giving you more potential to exploit certain weaknesses (like actually using T1 gunships). It also doesn't really take away any strategies as there are artillery units which take the role of long-range porc breakers. This also might be the reason why the AA units shooting at ground thing made sense - TA had no such dedicated artillery. In the end it actually goes with the way TA did it because at T2 with a dedicated artillery around the AA units also weren't able to hit ground (while there of course aren't any realy range advantages anymore at that tech level)...

[Dream Focus]

Just seems like you have more units to produce and micromanage, and cluttering up the battlefield. Turns things into paper rock scissors.

Rock = artillery units
Scissors = missile units
Paper = aircraft

You don't know what you'll enemy will send, so its random guessing now.

Rock beats scissors, scissors has no chance against rock but can destroy paper, paper defeats rocks.

Having the missiles just do several times the damage to air units as ground units, as in the original Total Annihilation, seems like a better idea to me.

[Master-Athmos]

Well you can't really compare it to a rock-paper-scissors concept (which you even "butchered" by not considering classes like e.g. the standard tanks) but it's about a role based design where units fit in a specific role and that's it. This way things actually get pretty complex. In the given case of the rocket AA units I did it the way it is now because otherwise the units were way too versatile as they were anti-air just as artillery with guided shots (rendering the dedicated artillery superfluous in like 80% of all situations) with the only counter of actually building some of your own. You also won't be able to do simple Tank & AA-truck spams and be fine against everything your opponent might show up with. You now have more options to exploit weaknesses...

You don't know what you'll enemy will send, so its random guessing now.

Actually TA is and always was about scouting and MA really gives you quite some options here. Plus the TA concept actually makes it rather easy to do guesses (in comparison to e.g. Starcraft where you know next to nothing about your enemy): Thanks to radars you should be able to predict what your enemy is going to use (and if he's building a gunship force secretly outside your range your probably gonna notice as his resistance won't be as strong as it could). Even if he'd secretly build a gunship force you didn't uncover by radar or scouts you deserve to suffer from that when he manages to exploit weaknesses in your defence - would be lame if it wouldn't. Actually that's what the entire game is about: Use your units effective and build units that'll do you the most good - the player who either manages his units better or exploits weaknesses will win...

I didn't say this makes it the most easy game to play but the too high versatility of the rocket AA units often leading to a dumb two unit spam being the way to go in most situations in my opinion simply wasn't the best way...

[Gone]

Its been a long time since soon was said. Is there another version out or still in the makes

[Master-Athmos]

Yeah "soon" probably was some of my biggest misjudgements ever. Version 1.2 is pretty much done - I just want to change one thing and test it a bit with Spring's new release...

[Forboding Angel]

Yah, when you get a new version of this out, I'd like to give it a whirl. Sounds like fun and unless I'm mistaken, you retextured a lot of the ta units in s3o form didn't you (I'm pretty sure it was you)? Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing it.

[Dream Focus]

Level 1 transport aircraft can not pick up Commander, but the level 3 transport aircraft can. Is that done on purpose?

I always hated how torpedo planes can't find a target on their own, needing something else to spot for them. Doesn't that defeat the main point of them, which is to rapidly destroy underwater units?

The atomic bombers can not be set to hold fire. If any unit needed this option, its them! After they are made, they automatically endanger all friendly units, and the base itself. Also, when told to target something, they will bomb something else entirely sometimes, instead of saving their bomb until they get to the nearby target. Then they have to circle around, and instead of then hitting it, they sometimes decide to hit something else. Can you change that? And have it where if not given orders other than patrol, they'll aim for antiaircraft weaponry BEFORE targeting the solar cells and wind mills.

Bombers of all sorts will try to fight other aircraft by dropping bombs on them, they not able to hit them, just hitting the ground instead. Seeing the AI bomb the daylights out of their own base, while trying to hit one scout plane, is rather odd.

Core has necrobots, which can target the wreckage of any unit, and bring them back. This includes the strongest mecha from the level 3 vehicle plant. Is this meant to happen? Seems rather unbalanced.

Any chance of an option to disable the units with missiles can't hit grounds, and replace them with some identical units that can?

Great game over all. I'm the administrator at the Total Annihilation Wikia, so if you want to add in information there, there is an article I already started. Just adding in what units it has different, and whatnot, would be useful for people I think.

http://totalannihilation.wikia.com/wiki ... nihilation

[Gota]

I don't think this mod is maintained any more.

[Master-Athmos]

Level 1 transport aircraft can not pick up Commander, but the level 3 transport aircraft can. Is that done on purpose?

Yes - that's on purpose. On the one hand that's to prevent what I'd call "Comrapes" which is about using your temmates' energy supply to fly to your an enemy base, D-Gun everything (leaving nowreckage i.e. metal) and maybe doing so a couple of times again. The next thing is about enocouraging not to to Combomb so often (and as a side effect it also should make MA less valuable for those who want to ruin a game by just spamming T1 transports to grab all Coms of the own team and blow them)...

With T1 Air actually being way more valuable then in e.g. BA and making sort of a reasonable starting lab with e.g. the flying construction planes which don't take ages to build anymore there isn't that much use anymore in using your Commander as builder in areas that would take long to reach...

BTW - T2 transports also can grab the Com so it's just about the startinh phase where you can't lift him...

I always hated how torpedo planes can't find a target on their own, needing something else to spot for them. Doesn't that defeat the main point of them, which is to rapidly destroy underwater units?

Hmmm - good point. While in the coming version this should be a little less of a problem I'll consider giving them some sonar range...

The atomic bombers can not be set to hold fire.

I cannot remember to have such problems with them but maybe I fixed some of it already. Thanks - I'll have a look into that again...

Bombers of all sorts will try to fight other aircraft by dropping bombs on them, they not able to hit them, just hitting the ground instead. Seeing the AI bomb the daylights out of their own base, while trying to hit one scout plane, is rather odd.

Ok - I'll try to make them attack land and sea units only...

Core has necrobots, which can target the wreckage of any unit, and bring them back. This includes the strongest mecha from the level 3 vehicle plant. Is this meant to happen? Seems rather unbalanced.

Yes that's supposed to be that way - the can resurrect any not torn into tiny pieces wreckage not matter what it was (even a Commander). I wouldn't call it unbalanceed as it takes lots of time to resurrect the more expensive stuff (which also doesn'st spawn with full health but just a tiny bit and needs repairs taking quite a time to make it valuable). It actually is a nice strategy when your enemy thinks that blindly throwing heavy stuff at you every few minutes is the way to go...

I'll have a look though at the energy costs as every working resurrector should use some energy when working so a resurrection is not totally for free...

BTW:
Arm also has a ressurection bot...

Any chance of an option to disable the units with missiles can't hit grounds, and replace them with some identical units that can?

Hmm well my main purpose of doing this was that I never liked that behaviour in other games. It lead to misusing them as (guided projectile!) artillery and also lead to everyone also having extensive AA everywhere rendering air a pretty much useless choice at the beginning. With this changed air finally has become a more reasonable choice for the beginning of a game (especially in team matches where in many other mods like BA the air player just is there to reclaim wrecks and get to T2 as soon as possible as T1 air is a waste in general)...

Giving a modoption to do so nevertheless...
I might give it a though but only after releasing V1.2 which is about to be released...

Great game over all. I'm the administrator at the Total Annihilation Wikia, so if you want to add in information there, there is an article I already started. Just adding in what units it has different, and whatnot, would be useful for people I think.

Interesting - didn't know of that site yet...
BTW - there still is the MA article in the Wiki here, it's just "hidden" recently and I'll put it in again once V1.2 is out:
http://springrts.com/wiki/Maximum_Annihilation

There you can get lots of info. Considering what you've written: I wouldn't call it that much of a rock/paper/scissors system but rather a gameplay based on unit roles. This sort of has similarities with such a system but you'd need way more things than just those three choices to describe it and still it might not be very precise...

BTW:
If you want to try out what currently is sort of a nearly finished "Beta Version" just pm me an I'll give you a download link...

Many thanks for your comments!

I don't think this mod is maintained any more.

It is and the next release is nearly finished giving some nice improvements imo...

[Gota]

Wasn't this mod devved by someone else?

[Master-Athmos]

Look into my signature...

[Dream Focus]

Feel free to edit the Wikia article as you see fit. I just tossed out whatever was in my head at the time without thinking too much of it.

For the resurrection bots, I remember mass producing a large swarm of them, and I believe this sped up the resurrections. Been a few weeks and my memory isn't 100% reliable though. They are good for healing combat units. Having a group of them set to guard each super costly mecha unit is good investment.

I assumed, incorrectly it seems, that the lack of a level 1 air transport for the commander, was to prevent any sore losers from rushing off with him quickly, and hiding in a corner of the map, taking forever to find them. Not sure how often that would happen. By cloaking him at the bottom of the ocean somewhere, he'd be just as hard to find.

I use construction aircraft to absorb enemy units at times, especially shipyards.

[Master-Athmos]

For the resurrection bots, I remember mass producing a large swarm of them, and I believe this sped up the resurrections. Been a few weeks and my memory isn't 100% reliable though. They are good for healing combat units. Having a group of them set to guard each super costly mecha unit is good investment.

Ah - now I see what you mean. There were some changes about the features and so the values of the rez-bots are too high making them resurrect too fast...

I assumed, incorrectly it seems, that the lack of a level 1 air transport for the commander, was to prevent any sore losers from rushing off with him quickly, and hiding in a corner of the map, taking forever to find them. Not sure how often that would happen. By cloaking him at the bottom of the ocean somewhere, he'd be just as hard to find.

Well hiding ones Com couldn't be better for an enemy - he's the toughest unit in the beginning of the game and should be used to push forward to get metal spots and build some defenses. That way those T1 transport mainly were used to grab one of your teammate Commanders and get him to the middle of the map if possible so you can either grab some metal spots in their half or prevent an enemy from getting yours. It also is the number one choice to just fly into an enemy defense line blowing it up with the Com's explosion and then letting all teammates rush through that gap to the lightly defended bases. Especially that whole Com-Bomb maneuver made me change that (together with the Commander in general being more important) as there's little skill to it and just one well placed Com-Bomb can end a match because there's no enemy defense left which could stop your army from raiding the enemy bases. It sort of is a valid tactic but it adds a lot of boredom (and most people don't want to play with a Com-End setting where the loss of your Commander means one player losing everything)...

I use construction aircraft to absorb enemy units at times, especially shipyards.

Yeah - that still is a role they're good at (although reclaiming enemy buildings won't work against a human player )...

[Dream Focus]

Two beta bugs found.

• Ctrl C to select commander locks on commander, nothing else able to be selected, and also hides him, and makes him fire his D gun a lot without it selected at all. Have to reset when this happens, no way to get out of it. Bug doesn't happen in 1.1 version, just beta.
• I can save games but then can't load them.

Some enemy vehicles are listed as buildings on the map. I don't remember if this is part of the game, or from a LUA script though. When something is too far away to see what it is, but it has a yellow dot, or a letter for enemy unit, building, or construction unit.

Armed metal extractors produce a lot more metal than unarmed ones. Not sure if that was there before, but first time I'm noticing it. No reason to make four unarmed ones, if its cheaper to make one that is armed and able to produce the same amount of metal.

Suggestion:
Make the most advanced flying builders, able to produce advanced radar and aircraft repair facilities. Otherwise I have to go back and build a level 2 builder whenever I need that, or try to find any existing ones I have mixed up with the hordes of other construction aircraft I got swarming around to build things more rapidly.

Glad atomic bombers can now be made with a Hold Fire setting. If only they'd stop getting distracted and chasing after flying units they can't hit.

Stealth fighters are created to fight other aircraft. Sometimes they seem to be distracted fighting ground units instead.

[Master-Athmos]

Ctrl C to select commander locks on commander, nothing else able to be selected, and also hides him, and makes him fire his D gun a lot without it selected at all. Have to reset when this happens, no way to get out of it. Bug doesn't happen in 1.1 version, just beta.

Works fine here - CTRL+C selects the Commander and moves the camera to focus on him...

EDIT:
You didn't accidentally get into the fps control mode by just pressing "C" which lets you control the Commander in person, did you?

I can save games but then can't load them.

How are you trying to save & load a game? There were some engine side save & load features but to my knowledge they never really worked out. Now there is some Lua stuff floating around which I didn't test yet though...

Some enemy vehicles are listed as buildings on the map. I don't remember if this is part of the game, or from a LUA script though. When something is too far away to see what it is, but it has a yellow dot, or a letter for enemy unit, building, or construction unit.

What exactly do you mean by that? I tried to build all available units and so far I cannot spot a real mistake:


The only thing where this might fit is the T3 LRPC ships which get the same symbol as a LRPC building. Apart from that all unkown enemy units are shown as a question mark - once you've seen what exactly they are (and never lose radar contact on them) they will be shown as their respective symbol...

Armed metal extractors produce a lot more metal than unarmed ones.

Are you sure they were built on metal spots giving the same amount of resources? I found none of them giving more than the non-armed versions and actually the land based armed metal extractors give you a tiny bit less than an unarmed one...

Suggestion:
Make the most advanced flying builders, able to produce advanced radar and aircraft repair facilities. Otherwise I have to go back and build a level 2 builder whenever I need that, or try to find any existing ones I have mixed up with the hordes of other construction aircraft I got swarming around to build things more rapidly.

Yeah - I will do that. The T3 builders also are going to get the advanced storages too...

Glad atomic bombers can now be made with a Hold Fire setting. If only they'd stop getting distracted and chasing after flying units they can't hit.

Stealth fighters are created to fight other aircraft. Sometimes they seem to be distracted fighting ground units instead.

I'll look into that. The stealth fighter thing may get a bit tricky as they have some limited anti-ground ability so the "usual" tactic of bringing a mobile flak or two into the patrol line of the enemy fighters to get them eaten up doesn't really work anymore...

[Dream Focus]

C! Doh! So that's what caused it. My mistake.

The screenshot of what you see on radar is nothing like what I see. We must be using different LUA scripts. I see yellow question marks over everything, and then when they get close, there is only enemy units, build/construction units, and buildings shown, by a letter or symbol. What I see in the main area, not the mini-map.

Anyway to have the atomic bombers set to hold fire while near friendly buildings or even friendly units entirely, but bomb the heck out of everything else? Or perhaps it'd be easier to just have it check if its between two coordinates the player sets, and know that that area is off limits, or even select an area to be its bombing area.

When you click and drag you already create a square and select things in it. So it reads those coordinates in somewhere. Would it be hard to save them, and have it check, and all bombers only affect their designated area?

To save I hit escape and then click the save option there. Can not load though. I just got the newest version of Spring. That might be the problem. Just checked, and it seems to cause problems with any mod.

For the metal extractors, sorry, my mistake. The map I was using has spots not that far from each other, that look identical, but one provides far more metal than the other.

Hmm.... I'm not much of a beta tester, since I keep finding things wrong which aren't related to this beta. Doh! Sorry about that.

Most base defenses are quickly wiped out by hovercraft launching rockets from a superior range. The enemy can make a group of them right away, and just target one heavy laser tower or whatnot after another, clearing the way for other troops.

So, stealth fighters are suppose to be good at taking out anti-air units? Just mobile units, not anti-air buildings? I always just made hordes of gunships, brawlers, and uh... those level three planes that are good at hitting ground and nothing else, to handle the fighting.

A list showing what everything does, and what it is meant for, might be useful. I made one for the Total Annihilation: Kingdoms game. http://totalannihilation.wikia.com/wiki ... n_Kingdoms Listing what units get what attack bonus against what other units, for the ones that have that would be useful.

Give me a list of everything, and I'll stick it in Wikia format. Or is there a way to read the name and other stats from a file, and write it out automatically, placing | before the first, || before the second thing listed, and ||| between all future ones after that, with a |- between lines? If too much work, never mind, just curious.

[Dream Focus]

Water fighting
There is no advanced kbot water unit. Why is that? The pelican unit existed even in the original.

The advanced hovercraft platform produces depth charge hovercraft, which I assume are great for getting rid of underwater stationary targets such as buildings. They can not hit moving ships with it though.

Need a unit to make on land which can fight a horde of ocean units. Aircraft get shot down too easily.

The advanced hovercraft plant's super tank doesn't seem to do much damage at all. Shouldn't it be a bit stronger?

Is the anti-air structure produced by the level 3 flying builder effective? How does it compare to the level one and two anti-air units? Takes more resources and time to build, and doesn't seem to be able to shoot anything down.

Commander morph evolve
I love how the Commander can evolve to different levels. I went to the second level and was able to then produce level two items. But you loose the ability to produce things you could previously. Sometimes there is a need for cheaper units. Be great to keep what you know, and gain new things as well.

Nuclear question
My nuclear missiles won't fire sometimes. Got to have a unit over there spotting, and it must hit land. That makes it rather difficult to use, since are any targets worth nuking, someplace you can actually send spotter units and keep them alive long enough for the thing to fire? And I really want to hit groups of ships at times. Hmm.. I can hit some land without a spotter though, and other land not. Rather strange. A nuclear missile comes up ready for launch, then goes back down again.

Does the Vulcan weapon actual work? I built one, and tried targeting it on different things, but it doesn't seem to ever fire. Just noticed it says I need 40,000 power. Once you have enough metal and power being produced to build one advanced fusion reactor, you can just keep making them, until you have enough to power it I suppose. [Edit] I had more than twice the power I needed being produced, but it still didn't fire. Hmm... maybe I have to build storage containers and have it there then. I'll try that.

Air pads won't repair aircraft
I have an air pad with three Blade stealth gunships on it and one Liberty heavy fighter, and none of them heal one bit. Plenty of energy, it just not happening.

Aircraft
Allowing aircraft to shoot each other, instead of having to build some to attack the ground and others to attack air units, would be useful. Some better against air units, and some better against ground units, but you won't have an entire group wiped out by cheap level one anti-air aircraft if you have nothing left to protect it.