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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 6 release)
PostPosted: 11 Oct 2008, 21:40 
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Joined: 08 Sep 2008, 21:59
Location: small cars
:) i enjoyed this, played a 1v1 with my friend who is new to spring; he pretty much steamrolled me. i'd love to see how this progresses. if i have any complaints / comments, it's that i'd like a bigger map with more planets to try it out on. cool mod sir!
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 6 release)
PostPosted: 11 Oct 2008, 21:44 
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006, 15:19
torps are newbie-unfriendly IMHO, point defence ships work but are mostly hopeless when confronted with volleys... maybe it's just me complaining about being steamrolled by ~20-30 longbows and 2 carriers ;p
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 6 release)
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2008, 11:03 
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Joined: 12 Oct 2007, 08:24
KDR_11k wrote:
The direction can actually be controlled, when you drag a line the arrow indicates the forward direction. It might be possible to use a widget instead but I couldn't figure out how (was hard enough to make the current system).

Gravidar resolution increase works perfectly fine for me (it shows the actual grav data, the regular view is mosaiced), are you playing on some strange map perhaps?

I've got a display for planet income and total income on my todo list (would show a number above every planet plus a line to the unit that's effecting the number and a list of how many planets of which income class you have). It's probably not intuitive that regular ships give +5, carriers +20 and starbases +25 income from a planet (highest value is used, no stacking).

Guess I could list the ships that have each weapontype a perk affects, except maybe for mass drivers (almost all ships have a kinetic gun somewhere). Listing the effects of the more guns perk would be very long though.

Torpedo ships (at least the small ones) can be set to volley fire which makes them fire 12 torpedoes in one burst. If you have trouble overcoming point defenses that may be a good option.

Could you make the formation moving a widget do people can choose to use it? The control over spacing and placement that custom formations provides is really useful and THIS is suffering from the absence of it. Usually ships clump too much and scouting with decent spread becomes very micro intensive.

I haven't been able to replicate the radar bug. It happened on the map Cosmos.sd7.

Even a short manual with a short description of ships would be useful. Only through elimination can people figure out that gravitric weapons are the big blue things that large ships shoot.
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 6 release)
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2008, 15:35 

Joined: 15 Aug 2008, 17:06
wow this mod is so catchy
if people unchecked "hide mod not available" in their lobbies
this mod might become the next ba

one thought tho, any chance on making a temporary script to generate random ships from a certain location to attack you? afaik, AIs dont even build ships from their carriers, so theres no single player
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 6 release)
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2008, 21:59 
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006, 15:19
as was stated in a game, on bigger maps a need for a teleport spell of some kind is required; players can spend the whole game running the map in circles.
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 6 release)
PostPosted: 12 Oct 2008, 22:03 
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Joined: 21 Feb 2006, 14:09
Location: qq harder
want hyperdrive and possibly fighters with air behaviour :p
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 6 release)
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2008, 00:05 
Kernel Panic Co-Developer
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Joined: 16 Nov 2004, 13:08
You should totally merge THIS with Eternal Struggle. LordMuffe would do the art, KDR_11k would do the mechanics.
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 6 release)
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2008, 00:21 
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006, 15:19
fighters could use fibre mechanics, in that you only set the point where you want them and the swarm flies there on its own. OTOH I'm not that sure THIS needs fighters at all.
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 6 release)
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2008, 21:33 
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006, 15:19
remembered some more things:
- for 8v8 the default map is too small (makes for a very predictable game), need bigger maps
- bigger maps need more planets to be interesting
- more planets means too much cash - need resource multiplier so we could play 20 planets, but each would generate only like 25%-50% of the default amount.

also, from the crazy idea department:
- emp storms wandering about the map so there are places you need to get around (or something similar)
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 6 release)
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2008, 10:40 

Joined: 15 Aug 2008, 17:06
emp storms @ my base =(
but features affecting gameplay would be nice
since playing on a square gets tiresome after a while
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 6 release)
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2008, 11:28 
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006, 15:19
Your what? If you have bases in THIS, you're doing it wrong ;p
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 6 release)
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2008, 11:30 
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Joined: 16 May 2007, 17:33
Yeah, what about buildings?
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 6 release)
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2008, 15:26 
Supreme Annihilation Maintainer
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Joined: 11 Jan 2008, 16:55
hi.
After palyign this a few times IMO the pace should be a bit slower.
Im not nessesarily talking about the ship speeds but about how fast it takes them to die.
This will allow you to micro your small and different ships to attack targets from distances and positions that your forces favor and attack enemies that they are best suited to attack.
you will have time to zoom in and micro thing and have full control of your forces,using them,if you are good enough to their full potential.
Atm it is very much "throw a mix of units nad send them in kinda gameplay.
If ships die slower it will also put more emphesis on watching the forces of your opponent and using your capitals,which are also in battle,to build units you need based on ur observation of the enemy forces.
ATM i dont think there is enough time for that.
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 6 release)
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2008, 20:15 
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006, 15:19
another idea to improve game dynamics - try to spawn (some) planets outside of starting boxes so "porcmaps" aren't as easy to make; also, maybe check if planets aren't created close to each other. (lift those limits after N tries.)
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 6 release)
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2008, 07:39 
Game Developer
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Joined: 25 Jun 2006, 07:44
Location: Germany
What I'd like to see is more predesigned maps actually but I have little design skill...
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 6 release)
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2008, 09:31 
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006, 15:19
random is good, makes every game different ^^
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 7 release)
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2008, 10:01 
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Joined: 25 Jun 2006, 07:44
Location: Germany
http://kdr_11k.from-hell.net/THIS%20WIP7.zip

WIP7, doesn't address things like formations as a widget or better random placement yet, I'll do that later.

Changes I remember:
- Added Imperator flagship. The thing has hardpoints you have to buy turrets for, without those it's harmless. There was a lot of code involved in getting this thing to work since Spring didn't really cooperate... If the hitbox of the control tower moves around too much I'll have to move the center around, that seems to be a new issue in 77b4.
- Increased small ship HP. I figured the cost difference between small and large ships isn't enough to warrant such huge HP differences and with so much AOE stuff flying around the small ships didn't see much usage in the games I saw (outside of longbow, drone and wraith spam)
- Drones have more HP but move slower, makes it more feasible to fight them without point defenses.
- Carriers now show their repair radius and can set a rally point.
- Repair rates increased.
- A team will now lose if it goes one minute without any planets (the first minute of the game does not count), this is a mod option and can be disabled.
- Income can be adjusted in the mod options.
- Planet income is shown along with a display of which unit effects it, should make it easier to understand.
- Total income is displayed on the GUI now.
- The perk "EMP missiles" no longer hurts allies.

I bet there's going to be a lot of game breaking with the Imperator (or at least ugly clipping...). It has really slow turret buildtimes since turrets can be replaced in mid-battle and I was worried about people making them pop up in combat.


I was asked to write a unit list, the perk list will have to wait until later...

Small Ships:

Dagger: Cheap, fast, weak. It comes with a bunch of kinetic guns that do low but sustained damage. If you need a cheap ship for scouting or grabbing a neutral planet the Dagger is a good option

Sword: A shorter ranged main battle unit, the sword's missiles make it a threat to anything.

Mace: Laser ship with mag shield. The Mace has a low damage output but high accuracy and a lot of armor. The mag shield greatly reduces the damage taken from plasma weapons.

Claymore: Longer ranged plasma ship, plasma weapons deal extra damage to large ships and can hurt small ones pretty well too. Unlike torpedoes a fired plasma shot cannot be stopped but the damage can be reduced by mag shields.

Longbow: A torpedo bomber with a mag shield, it's the cheapest way to get more torpedoes in your fleet. It can be set to volley fire to launch twelve torpedoes in rapid succession before taking a long time to reload. Longbows can target small ships too but aren't terribly effective at that.

Drone launcher: Launches bomber drones that swarm around a target and hit it with missile volleys. While they aren't very strong in small numbers the launchers can be kept behind the fighting which makes them live very long and give you a lot of use for your investment.

Warhammer: A cloaked missile bomber. Missiles, unlike torpedoes, cannot be shot down. The Warhammer can only be used if you pick the matching perk but it is a very versatile unit that can be used for anything from stealth recon to assassinations of large ships.

Wraith: Point defense. It shoots drones and torpedoes down but cannot fight. Keeping a few around big ships is always a good idea since torpedoes are a big source of damage for those.


Large ships:

Fleet Carrier: Pretty much a mobile factory, it builds fast. The carrier has torpedoes and gravitics to fight large ships but only two peashooters for fighting smaller ships. The gravitics allow it to deal a lot of damage at close range so going into close combat if possible is advisable.

Support Carrier: It can field an army and give it fire support too, the SC comes with artillery but builds slower than the Fleet Carrier. The torpedoes can help against large foes but the lack of gravitics means the Support Carrier should keep its distance.

Starbase: Pretty weakly armed station that is mostly useful for its economic benefit: When a Starbase holds a planet that planet outputs more money. Starbases can move though it's VERY slow.

Comet: A fast attack destroyer. Comets have gravitics, large plasma cannons and torpedoes, giving them a lot of firepower vs large ships at any range. The comet also moves faster than most large ships. Charging in frontally may still be suicide but Comets are great for taking the enemy from directions he doesn't expect.

Starslayer: Artillery. It has four times the firepower of a Support Carrier for that. Starslayers also have powerful plasma flak weapons that are very good at intercepting ddrones or torpedoes and deal a lot of damage to small ships as well.

Imperator: A flagship. You can have only one of it. The Imperator is slow, VERY slow. It comes without weapons but has 17 hardpoints which you can install weapons or helpful parts on. Those cost extra, of course. The Imperator can only be destroyed by shooting its control tower located at the center. Of course that destroys all the expensive weapons too so make sure you protect it.
Imperator hardpoints show an arrow when selected, that is the orientation of the hardpoint. For most of its weapons that defines the area it can be fired at.


Turrets (for mounting on the Imperator):

Hangar: Builds small ships just like a carrier, not much to say about that.

Drone Hive: Maintains a swarm of drones buzzing around.

Point Defese: Covers a wide arc with PD fire, letting no enemy drones or torpedoes operate there.

Antimatter Beam: A massively powerful beam cannon, covers a fairly wide arc with deadly antimatter fire that can rip a large ship apart in seconds and even has some light point defense. Its weaknesses are the limited fire arc that makes it vulnerable to flanking and the long charge up time, it's pretty effective to send a Dagger into one end of the arc moments before sending the rest of your force past the other end but be careful, getting a large ship through may still take too long.

Battle Turret: A 360° covering kinetic cannon. It deals decent damage but doesn't have a lot of range or firepower, more of a safety option to cover blind spots on your Imperator.

Plasma Cannon: Artillery. It has a fairly narrow arc but provides all the firepower of a Starslayer, at least at range.
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 7 release)
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2008, 13:53 
MC: Legacy & Spring 1944 Developer
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Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:14
Location: #moddev - join it!
Do starbases stack? I mean, do multiple starbases on a planet continue to increase it's income, or only the first?
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 7 release)
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2008, 17:07 
Supreme Annihilation Maintainer
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Joined: 11 Jan 2008, 16:55
Why are the biggest ships so afking big??if its a bug im reporting it if its suppose to be like this...???
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 Post subject: Re: THIS (WIP 7 release)
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2008, 17:25 
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006, 15:19
Yeah, the imperator is a bit over the top IMHO ^^ it's so big it'd require increasing spring's heading table resolution to not look crap (so the jitter during turning is reduced.)
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